Nintendo 3DS

This is a discussion on Nintendo 3DS within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; >When I bowl and the bowler starts the action before I've even moved my controller - how am I wrong? ...

  1. #16
    Crazy Fool Perspective's Avatar
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    >When I bowl and the bowler starts the action before I've even moved my controller - how am I wrong?

    He's supposed to start walking when you push B, and he releases the ball when you release the button. Direction and velocity of the ball are controlled by the swing of the wiimote.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    As for the why on the consoles, I'll just throw in some arguments in favor of consoles (or at least this used to be true until this multimedia console madness this generation):
    - No upgrades needed. Buy the console. Play it.
    - Works out of the box. No need to install. No need to patch. No need to register, etc.
    - Doesn't crash. More reliable. Less buggy.
    - No technical prowess needed. What specs do I need? Etc.
    - No troubleshooting. It just works out of the box.
    - Fluid graphics. Unless the game was poorly designed, there are no framerate drops. Or they aren't noticeable, etc. On a PC, it depends on your hardware. If your hardware is bad, then shucks on you. Get used to that slow framerate. Plus no twiddling with graphics settings.
    I quit PC gaming for a number of these reasons. I don't want to spend any more than 5 minutes on getting a game to work. With console games, you just google it; it either works, or it doesn't. With PC games, it's anyone's guess. It might be the game. It might be the hardware. It might be a totally different program that's installed.

    I suppose someone out there has the magical PC box that manages to run every PC game out-of-the-box, but I'm not that guy. Fortunately, I can buy a console and reduce the complexity of the "will it run?" equation. The hardware becomes a constant.
    If I did your homework for you, then you might pass your class without learning how to write a program like this. Then you might graduate and get your degree without learning how to write a program like this. You might become a professional programmer without knowing how to write a program like this. Someday you might work on a project with me without knowing how to write a program like this. Then I would have to do you serious bodily harm. - Jack Klein

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by pianorain View Post
    I quit PC gaming for a number of these reasons. I don't want to spend any more than 5 minutes on getting a game to work. With console games, you just google it; it either works, or it doesn't. With PC games, it's anyone's guess. It might be the game. It might be the hardware. It might be a totally different program that's installed.

    I suppose someone out there has the magical PC box that manages to run every PC game out-of-the-box, but I'm not that guy. Fortunately, I can buy a console and reduce the complexity of the "will it run?" equation. The hardware becomes a constant.
    This is in my opinion both the biggest advantage and disadvantage of consoles at the same time.
    On consoles you don't have to worry about anything, just run the game. If the game is buggy then you know it's because it is an actual bug in the game. Either live with it (and hope for a patch release) or return it to the store.
    On a pc it could be from a large number of causes. It could be that game is badly coded. It could be your antivirus (or any other software) interfering. It could be your hardware/drivers. It could be that you are trying to run the game on a different OS version than the game was targetted at, etc..
    But on the other hand; If you are having problems on a pc then there are usually workarounds, be it official ones or fan-made fixes. And if the game is running slow you can upgrade your hardware to compensate. If it were on a console you would be stuck with the framerate being low.

    Then there's also the issue* of being unable to run unsigned code on todays consoles. I can totally understand why they chose this way, but I will personally never buy a console which requires all code to be digitally signed by the console vendors. If I buy a piece of programmable hardware I want to be able to use it in any way I choose to.

    But for the average gamers a console is probably the better choice of platform.

    * To me it is a big disadvantage, others might disagree or not care at all.

  4. #19
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    And the big killer of the PC is, of course, the piracy.
    Why wont pirates go to consoles?

    IMO the big killer for pc gaming is expensive hardware upgrades. Moore's law should apply to GPUs as much as it does other things, at least. People who want to spend money and do that, can, but consoles are more economical for me and probably millions of others.

  5. #20
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiteflags View Post
    Why wont pirates go to consoles?
    They do, but not to the same extent.
    At least previous generation consoles were locked right. No way you would run software on them. So the PC was a far easier target. Crack it, then play it.
    For consoles, you usually have to chip 'em. After you do that, it's just as easy as to download, burn, and play.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  6. #21
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    No upgrades needed. Buy the console. Play it.
    - Works out of the box. No need to install. No need to patch. No need to register, etc.
    - Doesn't crash. More reliable. Less buggy.
    - No technical prowess needed. What specs do I need? Etc.
    - No troubleshooting. It just works out of the box.
    - Fluid graphics. Unless the game was poorly designed, there are no framerate drops. Or they aren't noticeable, etc. On a PC, it depends on your hardware. If your hardware is bad, then shucks on you. Get used to that slow framerate. Plus no twiddling with graphics settings.
    - Works out of the box. No need to install. No need to patch. No need to register, etc.
    Not exactly true. Many console games have fixes to make them run better. Bioshock required that XBox users clear their texture cache...and most didn't even know they had one. Their are games on the consoles that have technical problems just as much or more as the PC since the hardware isn't the most modern in the world.

    - Doesn't crash. More reliable. Less buggy.
    This has more to do with the developers than the platform and is a generalized sweeping statement that is not accurate at all. The PC in general should not crash, should be reliable and should be less buggy. However companies adopted the ship now, patch later attitude which killed the quality of games. It will happen on the console as well and is already starting since you can patch console games. Listen the problem isn't the platform...it's the mindset of those raking in the cash for these games and eventually their attitude will destroy the console market as well. Why...b/c their attitude towards games and gaming is utterly flawed.

    - No technical prowess needed. What specs do I need? Etc.
    I'll give you about 50% of this statement. Some technical prowess is needed to say hook the Wii up to a LAN or use XBox Live. As well when other games require you clear the cache or do this or that to your platform to run better it requires technical prowess. It also doesn't hook itself up to your TV or your stereo system so some bit of technical knowledge is needed to even get the thing up and running. It will only get worse when other consoles release their motion sensing technology.

    - No technical prowess needed. What specs do I need? Etc.
    This is the same as your first statement so does not qualify as a separate statement.

    Fluid graphics. Unless the game was poorly designed, there are no framerate drops. Or they aren't noticeable, etc. On a PC, it depends on your hardware. If your hardware is bad, then shucks on you. Get used to that slow framerate. Plus no twiddling with graphics settings.
    This is completely false. There are more troubles with framerate on consoles than there are on PCs - far more. Just go look at the forums. Some forums for the console look more like PC troubleshooting forums than console game forums. There are a lot of framerate issues with games on consoles. And guess what....you are stuck with that framerate since you can't go out and buy your fav video card for about 100 to 150 bucks which would improve your gaming experience. So not being able to upgrade the console is a huge minus in my book. My computer is already a year old and yet can run any game out there just fine. NFS Shift had framerate issues on the console and yet it never even stuttered on my PC. My PC chewed it up, spit it out, and asked for more. I could have probably played it in dual screen with max settings and it would have been fine. There are several console game reviews at GameSpot that mention framerate issues. Every time I read this I just smile a bit b/c I usually have the same game on the PC and it never hiccups once.

    On a PC, it depends on your hardware. If your hardware is bad, then shucks on you.
    It is no different on a console except since you know you have inferior hardware yet are trying to run the same games as the PC with the same quality....you are stuck with your crappy console hardware until they make the next generation of your console.
    On a PC at least you have the ability to upgrade and keep your system up to date.

    I just don't buy that PC upgrades, when done right, are any more costly than buying a console every few years. In fact I would say buying consoles like the PS3 every few years is more costly than upgrading a PC every 4 or 5 years.

    No games require you to upgrade your video card to some 400 or 500 dollar card or top of the line card. You can get a card that is a few years old and still play most, if not all, of your games just fine. The only issue really is shader versioning and it is devs fault that they did not provide shader fallbacks for your card....not the fault of your PC.

    And companies that only release on the console are just plain stupid and shortsighted. PC dev is cheaper and when you already have the game on the XBox 360 porting it shouldn't be a major issue.
    Plus why would you turn down another source of revenue? It can't be piracy b/c the company already made all their money on the game in the console market. The PC market should be funny money or just extra cashflow - why would a company ever turn that down is beyond me. Really shortsighted and it angers the PC market which may be the only market in the future that will support your games after the console craze and fanboyism is over.

    PC specific releases don't really bother me b/c there are also console-specific releases so buying this console or that won't fix the issue unless you buy every console. That is the only way you can be sure you won't ever be left out in the cold.

    I did not intend to turn this into a PC vs console debate. My point is I just don't understand all the craze over inferior games and inferior hardware. Step backwards in time if you like but as for me I would at least like to play on modern hardware. Consoles always have a been there done that 4 years ago feel for me.
    Last edited by VirtualAce; 03-25-2010 at 04:59 PM.

  7. #22
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    OnLive is going to save PC Gaming
    Staying away from General.

  8. #23
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    I agree with you on a lot of points. But the crux of the problem is that currently, the console side has less problems.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
    Not exactly true. Many console games have fixes to make them run better. Bioshock required that XBox users clear their texture cache...and most didn't even know they had one. Their are games on the consoles that have technical problems just as much or more as the PC since the hardware isn't the most modern in the world.
    Yes, this has started to become more of a problem in later consoles. Remember the old days when you just had to pop in a game and play? Unfortunately, these "new" generations of consoles are moving away from this trend. Which is a real shame. I want a console because they're just that--a console. That means the price is cheap, too. I don't need all that media crap. It just eats money. Hey, I have my PC!

    This has more to do with the developers than the platform and is a generalized sweeping statement that is not accurate at all. The PC in general should not crash, should be reliable and should be less buggy. However companies adopted the ship now, patch later attitude which killed the quality of games. It will happen on the console as well and is already starting since you can patch console games. Listen the problem isn't the platform...it's the mindset of those raking in the cash for these games and eventually their attitude will destroy the console market as well. Why...b/c their attitude towards games and gaming is utterly flawed.
    While I agree with you 100%, the fact is that currently PC games really are buggy. And less console games are. Though you're probably right that this will change in the future.

    I'll give you about 50% of this statement. Some technical prowess is needed to say hook the Wii up to a LAN or use XBox Live. As well when other games require you clear the cache or do this or that to your platform to run better it requires technical prowess. It also doesn't hook itself up to your TV or your stereo system so some bit of technical knowledge is needed to even get the thing up and running. It will only get worse when other consoles release their motion sensing technology.
    Part of the growing technical stuff of the "media" consoles. Yeah, we were better off in the old days.

    This is the same as your first statement so does not qualify as a separate statement.
    Oops. Did I repeat? Terrible sorry.

    This is completely false. There are more troubles with framerate on consoles than there are on PCs - far more. Just go look at the forums. Some forums for the console look more like PC troubleshooting forums than console game forums. There are a lot of framerate issues with games on consoles. And guess what....you are stuck with that framerate since you can't go out and buy your fav video card for about 100 to 150 bucks which would improve your gaming experience. So not being able to upgrade the console is a huge minus in my book.

    It is no different on a console except since you know you have inferior hardware yet are trying to run the same games as the PC with the same quality....you are stuck with your crappy console hardware until they make the next generation of your console.
    On a PC at least you have the ability to upgrade and keep your system up to date.
    All my consoles games have played smoothly. And yet, some PC games, such as NWN2 just won't keep a smooth framerate everywhere.
    Honestly, I would say that because of the fixed hardware of consoles, the developers know exactly how much they cram out of it and keep a steady framerate. I mean, I can easily get 60 FPS on a console, but on a PC? Forget it.

    I just don't buy that PC upgrades, when done right, are any more costly than buying a console every few years. In fact I would say buying consoles like the PS3 every few years is more costly than upgrading a PC every 4 or 5 years.

    No games require you to upgrade your video card to some 400 or 500 dollar card or top of the line card. You can get a card that is a few years old and still play most, if not all, of your games just fine.
    You're probably right in this. But it's the techie thing and the need to buy that kind of rears its ugly head in this.

    The only issue really is shader versioning and it is devs fault that they did not provide shader fallbacks for your card....not the fault of your PC.
    True, but then again, it would have been easier if there was a fixed hardware for 5 years. Now they have to do extra coding and extra testing...
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  9. #24
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    ...was a fixed hardware for 5 years.
    Shame. Shame. You know better than this. If this was true and hardware did not change on the PC as fast as it does...technology would be at a stand still and our jobs would also prob be in jeopardy and not nearly as challenging.

  10. #25
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    What did I imply this time? That fast moving technology is bad?
    No. I am implying that it is easier to work with a fixed hardware for 5 years, ensuring that it will all run fine until the next generation that will last for 5 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  11. #26
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    No. I am implying that it is easier to work with a fixed hardware for 5 years, ensuring that it will all run fine until the next generation that will last for 5 years.
    Yes, but all platforms can't stay static for 5 years so expecting the PC to do this would kill the hardware market in a flash. Again the changes in hardware is not the fault of the PC.

  12. #27
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Hence the need for consoles, so they can stay fixed for 5 years
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  13. #28
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    Hehe. Nice. Didn't see that one coming.

    Well we could go on and on about this and I would love to but again I don't want to turn the debate into console vs. PC b/c at the end of that day you pick your poison and drink it.

  14. #29
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    is it just me or is this the most beautifulest girl ever

    YouTube - 3DS - NINTENDO'S NEW HANDHELD
    Last edited by Cheeze-It; 03-26-2010 at 10:11 PM. Reason: i like the word "beautifulest" more than "hottest"
    Staying away from General.

  15. #30
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    Nope. Just you.

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