Is anyone else encountering the same problem?

This is a discussion on Is anyone else encountering the same problem? within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; Most word processors including the for some reason evil Microsoft word save to rtf. OP should have done this and ...

  1. #31
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    Most word processors including the for some reason evil Microsoft word save to rtf. OP should have done this and now he knows so yay. The end.

  2. #32
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiteflags View Post
    Most word processors including the for some reason evil Microsoft word save to rtf. OP should have done this and now he knows so yay. The end.
    RTF is outdated, but most word processors will load DOC as well, so your argument is fallacious. The reality is that the poster should have just pasted it into the post, if it is too long for that then TXT is the most appropriate format, but any common format is just as good as any other.
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  3. #33
    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    DOC is a proprietary and closed format controlled by 1 company (Microsoft) that can only be opened by 1 program (Microsoft Office) that costs a few hundred dollars and only runs on one of 2 OSes (Microsoft Windows and Mac) both of which cost almost as much.
    And what about OpenOffice which also opens Microsoft DOC format, can be installed on basically all major operating systems, and was suggested a day ago by another user.

    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    In terms of real-world wide-spreadness, most Mac machines don't have it, and no Linux machine has it. That would at least be 20-30%.
    Are you suggesting that Mac and Linux users account for 20-30% of the market share?

    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    File titles suggest they are created using Microsoft Word, but they are always published in PDF), or documents published by larger corporations, are published in DOC.
    I've worked for Citigroup and Deutsche Bank (wouldn't you call them 'larger corporations?') and in the departments I've worked in, basically all documentation was created and saved-in Microsoft DOC format. This is pretty much the case of the entire financial sector and many other job sectors in the world.

    There really is no excuse not to be able to open a DOC file. Even if you didn't have X installed... as long as you have a reasonable internet connection you should be only minutes away from installing the necessary dependancies and viewing the file on whatever machine you might be using. You really can't blame a guy for using a non-standard format even though most of the computers on the planet have no problem viewing it.

    To me, that's like whining about some source code that utilizes the Boost libraries... it's not a standard, yet... but they're used in common practice these days and any compiler can freely install the libraries if they wanted to. If they don't want to... then why should they bother posting, at all?
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  4. #34
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacs7 View Post
    Yes there is, you need X to run OpenOffice. I don't run an X server on my laptop... I just have a frame buffer set up to view required images.
    And I thot not owning a printer made me "fringe".

    Please don't tell me you are browsing with lynx and downloading images with wget or something...that is hard core
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  5. #35
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Amazing what a Word file and a few zealot loonies can do to a thread.

    In plain English:
    --------------------
    - Windows dominates with 90%. It rules above all other operating systems. Stop whining!
    - The vast majority of the people don't give a rat's arse if someone can't open a Word file. Deal with it!
    - If you can't open a Word doc file, you are lazy!
    - If you don't want to install a program to open said word doc file, you are irresponsible!
    - If you still feel your 1% should dictate the rules over Windows' 90%, you shutup!
    Last edited by Mario F.; 12-18-2009 at 09:51 AM.
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    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  6. #36
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    and that's why no government documents, school assignments/documents (at least for my school. File titles suggest they are created using Microsoft Word, but they are always published in PDF), or documents published by larger corporations, are published in DOC.
    Oh please! What exactly is your experience with "larger corporations"?

    How about you get a reality check? FYI, "larger corporations" will even send you memos on PowerPoint. That's "larger corporations" for you.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  7. #37
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    Amazing what a Word file and a few zealot loonies can do to a thread.
    - Windows dominates with 90%. It rules above all other operating systems. Stop whining!
    - If you still feel your 1% should dictate the rules over Windows' 90%, you shutup!
    Sure, but .txt and .jpg are usable on 100% of desktop systems regardless of OS. That is "cross-platform". Those extensions are also much more reliable and consistent.

    I would say my 100% over-rules your 90 or 75% or whatever.
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    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
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    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  8. #38
    C++ Witch laserlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK27
    Sure, but .txt and .jpg are usable on 100% of desktop systems regardless of OS. That is "cross-platform". Those extensions are also much more reliable and consistent.
    *renames the .doc to .txt ... tada!*

    But yeah, I think it is about format, not extension, heh.
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  9. #39
    Registered User jeffcobb's Avatar
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    As a computer programmer I would rather stick with OSS because the source is available for everything from my kernel to all of my device drivers, from my database system to my compiler, from my email client to my browser. If I want to see how something works, I can just take a look.

    As a responsible Internet citizen I would rather have a system that is immune to just about every virus and bit of malware out there so that I am not a contributor to the problem.

    For someone disseminating information I would rather do so in a way that allows 100% of my intended audience to read it.

    As a computer user I would rather use a system that guarantees lifetime upgrades for *all* software on the system.

    As a member of this forum I would rather not use disparaging words to describe those who disagree with me.

    I would also prefer an industry standard over a standard achieved through inertia and not technical merit.

    As a software engineer I would rather have a solution that worked in 100% of the cases; intentionally accepting substandard success rates would be seen as a failure.

    But that's just me. I know I live in a world with all kinds of people, many points of view. I am not so arrogant as to expect the world to conform to me; I am however hopeful that someday we learn to speak in a common tongue such that ideas can be freely exchanged, regardless of medium.

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  10. #40
    l'Anziano DavidP's Avatar
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    I agree that everyone should be able to open a Word file regardless of whether you are using Windows, Mac, or Linux. With the widespread popularity of the "doc" format for about 20 years now, it's about time that you have at least an ability to read a "doc" file, if not write.

    Having said that, I rarely save or publish anything in "doc" format myself (but I do have the tools to read/write if need be). I use OpenOffice, so I more commonly save in "odt" format, and I always do the final publishing of a document in PDF format.

    Now, with regards to the matter at hand, despite of the fact that everyone should have the ability to read doc files, the simple fact of the matter is: this should have been posted as an image (png or jpg) in the first place. The usage of doc files as a "container" to paste an image into and then send along to someone else is ridiculous. I hate it when people do it. Just send along/attach the actual image rather than pasting it in a doc file, and then sending the doc file.

    I can't say that's what the original poster of this thread did, because I never actually opened the doc file he attached at the beginning of the thread but I assume that's what he did, even without opening the file.
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  11. #41
    DESTINY BEN10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    Amazing what a Word file and a few zealot loonies can do to a thread.
    I didn't know at the first place that this was going to happen. But this is seriously funny.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    How about you get a reality check? FYI, "larger corporations" will even send you memos on PowerPoint. That's "larger corporations" for you.
    A very good point(or a true fact) till now.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidP View Post
    I can't say that's what the original poster of this thread did, because I never actually opened the doc file he attached at the beginning of the thread but I assume that's what he did, even without opening the file.
    Yeah I've done this only. You're a genious.


    I dont know whether PDF's can be read in LINUX or not. If yes, there are online converters of doc files if you want to view them.
    HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND.......

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  12. #42
    Registered User jeffcobb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BEN10 View Post
    I didn't know at the first place that this was going to happen. But this is seriously funny.

    A very good point(or a true fact) till now.


    Yeah I've done this only. You're a genious.


    I dont know whether PDF's can be read in LINUX or not. If yes, there are online converters of doc files if you want to view them.
    Ben; PDFs can be read on any platform and at this point in time offers the highest probability that the user will see the document as you envisioned it rather than how the document conversion tool translates it. FWIW, OpenOffice has been able to *write* PDFs for free far longer than any other tool...

    To me (and this is strictly my opinion) publishing information in a platform-specific format in a non-platform world and then arguing vehemently to support your choice tells me the author is writing/speaking to hear himself speak rather than making an honest and earnest attempt to exchange ideas or to educate. This I find kind of sad...


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  13. #43
    DESTINY BEN10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffcobb View Post
    Ben; PDFs can be read on any platform and at this point in time offers the highest probability that the user will see the document as you envisioned it rather than how the document conversion tool translates it. FWIW, OpenOffice has been able to *write* PDFs for free far longer than any other tool...

    To me (and this is strictly my opinion) publishing information in a platform-specific format in a non-platform world and then arguing vehemently to support your choice tells me the author is writing/speaking to hear himself speak rather than making an honest and earnest attempt to exchange ideas or to educate. This I find kind of sad...


    Peace
    According to me it goes like this.
    You can't fulfill everyone's requirement, so there comes a term *majority* to whom I was addressing. I know that it was my fault not attaching it as a jpg file but at that point of time I didn't know how to do it, so doc is the first thing that came to my mind. I'm not arguing that everyone should have doc reader but still you also can't deny the fact that most of the PC user have it. I'm sorry for making you sad.
    I think it's the right time for this thread to get closed. I just wanted to convey my point that cboard is having problems from the past few days, which I have done.
    Thank You
    HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND.......

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  14. #44
    Registered User jeffcobb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BEN10 View Post
    According to me it goes like this.
    You can't fulfill everyone's requirement, so there comes a term *majority* to whom I was addressing. I know that it was my fault not attaching it as a jpg file but at that point of time I didn't know how to do it, so doc is the first thing that came to my mind. I'm not arguing that everyone should have doc reader but still you also can't deny the fact that most of the PC user have it. I'm sorry for making you sad.
    I think it's the right time for this thread to get closed. I just wanted to convey my point that cboard is having problems from the past few days, which I have done.
    Thank You
    Ben; the sadness comes because this place is populated by programmers and not just general riff-raff. As such I expect more logic and clarity and am disappointed anytime the exchange of ideas/data is impeded, regardless of the reason.

    You are in any event, correct. It is time to close it. If nothing else I do walk away with an altered estimation of my colleagues here..
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  15. #45
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    And what about OpenOffice which also opens Microsoft DOC format, can be installed on basically all major operating systems, and was suggested a day ago by another user.
    Support is not perfect. It's from reverse-engineering, because Microsoft does not publish the format. Have you actually tried it? I have been using OpenOffice exclusively for a few years now. Despite huge amount of effort going into supporting the DOC format, it still won't render anything but the simplest documents perfectly. Usually good enough to read the content after some fixing, but very ugly.

    Are you suggesting that Mac and Linux users account for 20-30% of the market share?
    I am indeed. I am not sure where those numbers came from, and they may even be true for the "global average", but in places like schools (at least my school), Mac share is WAY greater than 5%.

    I've worked for Citigroup and Deutsche Bank (wouldn't you call them 'larger corporations?') and in the departments I've worked in, basically all documentation was created and saved-in Microsoft DOC format. This is pretty much the case of the entire financial sector and many other job sectors in the world.
    Yes, internally. Are documents also PUBLISHED in DOC for public consumption? I would be seriously worried if that's the case.

    - Windows dominates with 90%. It rules above all other operating systems. Stop whining!
    And 90% of people have food and shelter.

    - The vast majority of the people don't give a rat's arse if someone can't open a Word file. Deal with it!
    Yes, we are dealing with it right now, by educating people about the ugliness of the DOC format.

    - If you can't open a Word doc file, you are lazy!
    - If you don't want to install a program to open said word doc file, you are irresponsible!
    If you publish a DOC file, you are lazy!
    If you don't want to install a program to convert your DOC file to an open format so it's accessible by everyone, you are irresponsible!

    - If you still feel your 1% should dictate the rules over Windows' 90%, you shutup!
    That would be the case if Windows can't open JPG or PDF files. That's not the case.

    I dont know whether PDF's can be read in LINUX or not. If yes, there are online converters of doc files if you want to view them.
    Yes, Linux has PDF readers. Shouldn't you be the one converting the files you publish? Wouldn't that be a little more considerate?

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