Getting a Job

This is a discussion on Getting a Job within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally Posted by ablacher Don't think that open source is in any way indicative of most real world programming. Most ...

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ablacher
    Don't think that open source is in any way indicative of most real world programming. Most open source is spaghetti code
    Heres a list of just a few open source projects, which you say isnt "real world programming" and you say "most" have spaghetti code:

    In addition to: Firefox, Chrome, Linux kernel:
    - Wikipedia (in particular, "MediaWiki")
    - MySQL (the most popular database package)
    - Apache web server (most popular web server)
    - Python
    - Azureus
    - GTK and GIMP
    - Many Bittorrent clients
    - OpenOffice
    - VNC
    - VLC

    Again, all of these are not "real world programming" and are littered with spaghetti code, which is obvious due to their stability and popularity (right?).

  2. #17
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Abachler is just trying to "get some goad(s)" nadroj, nothing new about that.

    Witness, by definition it is impossible to hold CLOSED SOURCE up to any kind of standard at all, because you cannot look at it. All you can have is some anecdotal stories ("All the projects I've worked on -- honest!"). So when someone says open source code is generally a mess, or something to that effect, they can only be bullsh**ing. That's attitude !

    There are plenty of closed source apps around that run like crap, just you can't for sure blame it on the code, which probably that is good for closed source coders -- they can claim anything they want, they just can't prove anything.

    YouTube - Talking Heads - Artists Only

    Quote Originally Posted by nadroj View Post
    Again, all of these are not "real world programming" and are littered with spaghetti code, which is obvious due to their stability and popularity (right?).
    You forgot to add the world's finest and most popular C/C++ compiler, and 100% of the common libraries.

    Apparently linux is the OS/kernel of choice now on 99%+ of the world's supercomputers -- I guess they couldn't handle all that closed source "quality".
    Last edited by MK27; 12-05-2009 at 03:40 PM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  3. #18
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    Great to see someone who knows what theyre talking about.

    Also, I dont know any Talking Heads, but the first thing I thought of when I checked the link was that it sounded like King Crimson ([something] Bellows, or whatever one of the many lead singers' names were).

    EDIT: The name I was thinking is "Adrian Belew".
    Quote Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Belew
    In addition to his readily recognisable guitar sounds, Belew is noted for the distinct, nasal, sometimes manic feel of his vocals. His singing voice is often compared to that of Talking Heads singer David Byrne
    Last edited by nadroj; 12-05-2009 at 04:10 PM.

  4. #19
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nadroj View Post
    This means thatmy statement I believe is true.
    and my crazy ex wife believes she was abducted by aliens, your personal beliefs have no relevance on the validity of yoru statement. Of COURSE you believe yoru statements are true, or you wouldn't have said them, unless you are intentionally trying to deceive people by stating an opinion you don't hold, but to what effect who cares.

    Do not call me stoned or stupid.
    I didn't call you anything, which would require a declarative phrase.
    I asked if you where stoned or stupid, which is an interrogative phrase.
    Having reviewed my original statement, I will say that perhaps I could have worded it better... by using a different conjunction, but alas it stands as is.

    Linux is the kernel.
    No, it isn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    Linux (commonly pronounced /ˈlɪnʌks/, LI-nuks in English[5][6], also pronounced /ˈlɪnʊks/[7]) is a generic term referring to Unix-like computer operating systems based on the Linux kernel.
    I'll see your opinionated knee jerk opinion and raise you an actual informed and experienced position.

    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    Witness, by definition it is impossible to hold CLOSED SOURCE up to any kind of standard at all, because you cannot look at it.
    Spoken like someone that has never done real world development that required signing a non-disclosure agreement.
    Last edited by abachler; 12-05-2009 at 06:13 PM.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

  5. #20
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    Since you realize you dont have any valid argument, you've resulted to dissecting my statements to find grammatical or other irrelevant errors.

    After I said that I went straight to Wikipedia to back up my statement, and noticed it wasnt word-for-word equivalent, but I kept it anyway, because I usually consider Linux to just be the kernel, and when referring to it as an OS I say Linux-based OSs.

    Also, I would suggest not to use Wikipedia because its open-source and Ive read every line of its source and its spaghetti code. Also, I would stay away from this website because it uses free and open-source software with terrible code, too.

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    No, it isn't.
    And of course, Photoshop is part of Windows.

  7. #22
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    BTW, I find it strange (but it makes sense) that there are open source fanboys, like yours truly, and closed source fanboys, like no one in this thread.

    It's not uncommon, though.

    When (normal) people look at my laptop, and notice that I run Linux, some of the first comments I received are along the line of "Oh, is that Linux? But it's not as good right? Because it's free."

    And that's from engineering students, where about 10-20% run Linux (we even have someone running Solaris), and most of the rest have at least heard about it.

    I should start a business selling Ubuntu for twice the price of Windows (price subject to change, depending on the current price of the most expensive version of Windows).

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberfish View Post
    And of course, Photoshop is part of Windows.
    Obviously. I got them bundled with my Microsoft Office OS.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ablacher
    I'll see your opinionated knee jerk opinion and raise you an actual informed and experienced position.
    Spoken like someone that has never done real world development that required signing a non-disclosure agreement.
    I realize the second statement wasnt directed explicitly to me (though I can assume, as you seem to think is ok, that it was towards me too). And yes, the only real world experience I have is with a company requiring an NDA. So yes, I do have an "actual informed and experienced position".

  10. #25
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nadroj View Post
    Since you realize you dont have any valid argument, you've resulted to dissecting my statements to find grammatical or other irrelevant errors.
    On the contrary, I was pointing out logical errors in your reply due to the fact that you obviously failed to comprehend what I actually posted. Your responce implied that I called you stoned or stupid, which I did not, I pointed that fact out.
    After I said that I went straight to Wikipedia to back up my statement, and noticed it wasnt word-for-word equivalent, but I kept it anyway, because I usually consider Linux to just be the kernel, and when referring to it as an OS I say Linux-based OSs.
    Whereas most OS programmers refer to Linux-OS as Linux and the kernel as the Linux Kernel for a good reason, they are entirely separate projects. There are many different Linux Operating systems, there is only one legitimate Linux Kernel. Even security enhanced linux uses the Linux Kernel.
    Also, I would suggest not to use Wikipedia because its open-source and Ive read every line of its source and its spaghetti code. Also, I would stay away from this website because it uses free and open-source software with terrible code, too.
    vBulletin is not open source in the traditional sense, that is it is not in the public domain, only licensed customers have access to the source code, which is a necessity as its written in php.

    Stability and popularity can still be noodly as hell. Spaghetti code is far less secure. In point of fact, every system is perfectly secure until someone figures out a weakness. Then a systems security depends on how readable the source is so that a security fix can be implemented quickly. Sorry to burst your bubble, but some snot nosed wet behind the ears recent college graduate isn't getting first crack at fixing the latest al Qaeda hack and if your code is obfuscated or spaghetti code, even if every other snot nosed kid uses the same brand of spaghetti, it is more often cheaper to just throw the code out and start over. The cost of dealing with a security issue isn't the cost of development, but the cost of continuing to use an insecure system.
    Last edited by abachler; 12-05-2009 at 06:37 PM.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

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    to be frank ,i am a sophomore in major cs, now i absorb my self in it and when it's the time to show ,i will surprise everyone

  12. #27
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    Of course they are separate projects, no one said they are the same. Of course there are many OS, Linux or otherwise. Of course there is only one "official" Linux kernel. All of these facts were already known and agreed on.

    Also, "most programmers" means nothing. Please do a survey to provide hard data. Otherwise theres no point discussing this subjective topic.

    Your making false assumptions again: I never said "vBulletin" is open-source. The DBMS used here is open-source. Edit: Also, the majority of the PHP libraries that it uses are probably open-source too.
    Last edited by nadroj; 12-05-2009 at 06:26 PM.

  13. #28
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nadroj View Post
    Your making false assumptions again: I never said "vBulletin" is open-source.
    Quote Originally Posted by nadroj View Post
    Also, I would stay away from this website because it uses free and open-source software with terrible code, too.
    OK, I'm going to stop feeding the troll now.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

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    Your confirming I never said anything about vBulletin, so thank you. This web site uses PHP and MySQL. MySQL, see my post earlier, is open-source. PHP, see my post earlier, contains a mostly open-source set of libraries. Therefore, as I stated earlier:
    ...this website [...] uses open-source software
    And thank you for discontinuing the discussion, at least until you have something constructive to add.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by abachler
    OK, I'm going to stop feeding the troll now.
    Ha ha ha.

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