a boy come from china

This is a discussion on a boy come from china within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally Posted by Akkernight Stupidity really makes me explode in anger (even tho I know I'm stupid myself) and I ...

  1. #106
    Guest Sebastiani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akkernight View Post
    Stupidity really makes me explode in anger (even tho I know I'm stupid myself) and I wrote these Manga/Anime hating things after have seeing some Anime a friend watched (Dragonballs?), and the stupidity just exploded me, that's why I freaked out and wrote all the manga/anime hatred stuff :P
    You know, I grew up on Americanized anime of the 70's/80's, and was always amazed at how much more intelligent, interesting, and visually impressive the asian versions were. For instance, one popular show was "Battle of the Planets". In a nutshell: good vs. evil, drippy sentiment, two-dimensional personalities, and typical low-quality Hanna-Barbera style drawings. It was a cool 'concept', though, so it was nonetheless well received by us pre-teenagers.

    But then a few years later, when I saw what the show was actually based on ("Gatchaman!"), I was completely amazed. The animation was crisp and full of momentum. The characters and plot were complex and complicated. The "bad guy" was indeed a threat to humankind, but his/her/it's motivation was actually to protect the Earth from the creatures it had "planted" there millenia before - us! Needless to say, the Japanese version is a great piece of film, whereas the American version is, well, basically junk.

    One of my absolute favorite anime films, by the way, is Miyazaki's Spirited Away. A true masterpiece, in every sense of the word.

    So yes, I think it would be very unfair to criticize the entire genre of anime. Which isn't to say it doesn't have it's share of garbage, it does (and what genre doesn't?).

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    Hail to the king, baby. Akkernight's Avatar
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    well, seeing anime characters real serious and shouting "people die when they get killed." really makes me go 'What. The. .........'...
    But I must admit, I've never seen a real serious anime, I've seen some stuff, but when I see huge water drops suddenly spawn on the side of the people's heads(or on the sides of a god damn boat, which I saw once), or very stupid expressions, like facepalming is a donkey look or something, or when someone scares these anime guys, they start flapping in the air for some seconds, then combine both the things I talked about, just makes me go "what the ........? Who'd make such things?".
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    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Unfortunately most of the anime going on TV is crap. Overreactions, senseless stories, abrupt changes of plot with no meaning whatsoever, infantile drawing, and a total fail at suspension of disbelief. So I do understand where you are coming from. It's true. Anime is generally a stupid, idiotic, moronic animation style. It's the juvenile equivalent of Japanese TV contests (I suggest you never try to watch these).

    But...

    Within you can find a few pearls. Mostly, you will want to look for mature audience oriented Anime. I'm not a good one to suggest you of anything in particular. As a rule of thumb I too detest Anime. Besides I'm a long-time fan of Eastern-Europe animation school. But I've been positively impressed before. There's an annual animation festival here in Portugal with authors from all over the World. I attended it twice. Last time 2 years ago. There I saw Anime as it was meant to be for people like me (and I guess you). Interesting mature stories, convincing voice acting, good plot and excellence in drawing.
    Last edited by Mario F.; 11-20-2009 at 02:32 PM.
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    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  4. #109
    Guest Sebastiani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akkernight View Post
    well, seeing anime characters real serious and shouting "people die when they get killed." really makes me go 'What. The. .........'...
    But I must admit, I've never seen a real serious anime, I've seen some stuff, but when I see huge water drops suddenly spawn on the side of the people's heads(or on the sides of a god damn boat, which I saw once), or very stupid expressions, like facepalming is a donkey look or something, or when someone scares these anime guys, they start flapping in the air for some seconds, then combine both the things I talked about, just makes me go "what the ........? Who'd make such things?".
    No doubt. Well, the field of anime certainly has changed a lot in recent years. There are a whole lot more people involved in making them, so the quality's bound to go down, invariably (that's how it usually works out, anyway).

    Consider something like skateboarding, for example. When I was a teenager, there were a small handfull of 'masters' of the art. Those of us who were anything less than equal would never have claimed to be so. We respected the ones who had hard-earned their reputations and humbly accepted our inferiority.

    Then it became a real fad. Everyone and their dog, it seemed, wanted to be a 'skater', and 'posers' proliferated. Everyone claimed to be a skating god, and yet few could even skate very well. They would open skate parks, hold competitions, and publish magazines. Using the best gear that money could buy, they would destroy their equipment in self-glorifying photo-shoots and talk about their "lifestyles".

    The real masters were still around, but just buried in the hype. You could sometimes find them in empty swimming pools or sewage culverts, wearing cut-off shorts and riding the same patched up stick they'd had for the past year, not posing for photo shoots but just blowing the mind of the bystander with their zen-like presence, soaring like eagles across raw concrete!

    But I digress. Point is, something like anime is much the same - the best stuff is often a hard to find, but it's definitely there. You just have to know what to look for, what it's original roots are, etc.

  5. #110
    Guest Sebastiani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    Unfortunately most of the anime going on TV is crap. Overreactions, senseless stories, abrupt changes of plot with no meaning whatsoever, infantile drawing, and a total fail at suspension of disbelief. So I do understand where you are coming from. It's true. Anime is generally a stupid, idiotic, moronic animation style. It's the juvenile equivalent of Japanese TV contests (I suggest you never try to watch these).

    But...

    Within you can find a few pearls. Mostly, you will want to look for mature audience oriented Anime. I'm not a good one to suggest you of anything in particular. As a rule of thumb I too detest Anime. Besides I'm a long-time fan of Eastern-Europe animation school. But I've been positively impressed before. There's an annual animation festival here in Portugal with authors from all over the World. I attended it twice. Last time 2 years ago. There I saw Anime as it was meant to be for people like me (and I guess you). Interesting mature stories, convincing voice acting, good plot and excellence in drawing.
    You know, I don't think I've ever seen anything from the Eastern-European realm - is there anything in particular that you'd recommend, or perhaps conferences, etc, that might be good resources for that sort of thing?

  6. #111
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    I'm not a particular fan*, but there are some great anime feature films -- Akira is one, Princess Mononoke is another. Princess Mononoke owes a lot to Japanese Samurai movies from the 70's (or 60's? and 80's?), some of which are totally excellent (but, like American westerns, which also have a kind of existential hero in a chaotic, violent and dyfunctional world, a lot of them are probably moralistic drivel).

    * in fact those two are the only ones I can remember seeing.
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  7. #112
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastiani View Post
    But I digress.
    I could listen to it all day. I'm from that generation when skateboards where thick small colored plastic boards on wheels. As any other kid I tried my luck and failed miserably. But would follow in amazement at the athletes (artists) being born and witness the craze developing.

    Indeed, there was too a lot more understanding for what really meant to be a skateboard master. But my dearest memories are mostly related to the fact there was no city hall creating spaces for us. Neither we were treated like movie stars by any press, or other kids in fact. Mostly we were an annoyance, we were always dirty and skateboards weren't allowed in school.

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    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  8. #113
    Guest Sebastiani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    I'm not a particular fan*, but there are some great anime feature films -- Akira is one, Princess Mononoke is another. Princess Mononoke owes a lot to Japanese Samurai movies from the 70's (or 60's? and 80's?), some of which are totally excellent (but, like American westerns, which also have a kind of existential hero in a chaotic, violent and dyfunctional world, a lot of them are probably moralistic drivel).

    * in fact those two are the only ones I can remember seeing.
    Well, you know Princess Mononoke was also done by Miyazaki. If you liked that then I'm pretty sure you'd enjoy Spirited Away - you should really check it out.

    I've seen some pretty good Samarai films, too, but unfortunately, I can't remember any titles. The best are the authentic Japanese ones (as opposed to the 'Hong Kong' type productions).

    I could listen to it all day. I'm from that generation when skateboards where thick small colored plastic boards on wheels. As any other kid I tried my luck and failed miserably. But would follow in amazement at the athletes (artists) being born and witness the craze developing.
    Wow, yeah that's what I'm talking about. If you can stay on top of one of those plastic jobs you're definitely a pro! We were a little luckier, having concave decks, stout trucks, and superfast wheels. Argueably a much easier ride.

    Indeed, there was too a lot more understanding for what really meant to be a skateboard master. But my dearest memories are mostly related to the fact there was no city hall creating spaces for us. Neither we were treated like movie stars by any press, or other kids in fact. Mostly we were an annoyance, we were always dirty and skateboards weren't allowed in school.
    Yeah, pretty much the same for us. There weren't really any skate parks within city limits back then, either. I guess the good thing about a place like Houston, though, is there was always a place to skate - deserted factories, miles and miles of concrete bayous, not to mention the fact that the city is mostly zone-free (you can set up shop almost anywhere), making it difficult to regulate where skaters could go.

    Do people even skate anymore? Since I've been in North Carolina, I haven't seen a single skateboard, come to think of it. It's kind of weird, actually.

  9. #114
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastiani View Post
    Do people even skate anymore? Since I've been in North Carolina, I haven't seen a single skateboard, come to think of it. It's kind of weird, actually.
    I only started three years ago, at 33 -- I wasn't getting any exercise, so I went to buy some roller blades at a sporting goods store. They also had cheapo skateboards (like $30), which at the time was not something I'd ever had an interest in, at all. Then I was standing there thinking, if I get roller blades, I would have to take them off when I got on transit, whereas a skateboard suddenly seemed like a brilliant idea (it was). I used to ski patrol, and I've worked as a bike courier downtown, so I thought heck, I should be able to handle this. IMO it is also much safer than roller blades altho harder to learn.

    But I totally love it. Altho my intent at first was just basic transportation, after about a year I started checking out the parks -- there's a bunch in NYC, including one about twenty minutes walk away, right on the boardwalk next to a surfing beach (yes, I was stunned to learn people here surf). Not to contradict you old school street types, but the parks are a great idea and city hall did a great thing building them. Eventually I learned to "drop in" and skate the half pipe. Bowls and pools I have a harder time getting speed out of. Unfortunately, I think my days are numbered for this activity tho, I hurt my knee in the summer and it's still not 100% back -- I really really do not want to seriously damage it as this could rule me out of a lot of other activities I love, for the rest of my life. If you don't overdo it, of course, I think there are very few things that will strengthen your ankles as effectively.

    It's a very technical, mental activity IMO, good for the body, mind, and soul. The ollie is like one of the hardest things I've ever learned (it's also very hard on that knee, too, unfortunately). I don't think I have the patience to work on tricks beyond that, but I do want to make it up on the curb from time to time.

    There are hordes of skaters in NYC. Like, packs of them. On a pleasant evening like tonight, from about 3 or 4 pm on if I walk five minutes to the corner store I will probably see a few kids around practising tricks, and the entire city is more or less like that in residential areas. I went to a "International Skate Day" thing here last year (they do it all over the world on the summer solstice). There were two or three thousand kids on boards, which is, well, it has to be seen to be believed. The "organizers" herd everyone around Manhattan (in a kind of unorganized mass which completely blocked all traffic, for a quarter mile, when going from place to place), sometimes hitting the city parks and sometimes other spots that people have used since before the parks existed. The most stunning athletic event I have ever seen in my life (hands down, on TV or off) took place that day at one of the parks. I mean that completely honestly. People were lined up around the outside fence TEN DEEP and they would just fly at the box/ramp arrangement (which was maybe 15-20' feet across and up to four feet high) in the center as often as they dared, which was way way more often than sanity would dictate. There were constantly 3 or 4 guys (yes, sadly girls would be like <1%) getting 6' of air simultaneously, flying past each other from all directions, then lining up again -- as one guy landed going one way, someone would be taking off right behind him AND right in front of him. More than once I saw someone lose their board in mid air and some dude coming the opposite way would catch it in the air, totally spontaneously, land, circle round and give it back. This kind of intensity went on, non stop, for several hours (I just watched, mostly -- there were hundreds of people, all with boards lining the fence tops and on the bridge pilings nearby). I still cannot believe no one was hurt, AFAIK.

    Anyway, yeah, it definitely is a massive phenomenon in New York. Most of the kids put a lot of serious time in and a lot of them are very, very good at it. I still haven't met anyone my age who's so new (which is kind of funny, sometimes I will show up somewhere and the kids think I am some kind of hot shot until I get on the board , then they just think it's neat I'm doing it). There is not much of the aggression and machismo I associate with some sports, which I think is great because the kids are often young (10-14) and I am sure it is a positive environment for them, etc.

    Whew! Sorry for the long windedness! Skateboarding! Love it! I just wish I'd started younger, and that my stupid knee wasn't still hurt
    Last edited by MK27; 11-20-2009 at 05:07 PM.
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  10. #115
    Guest Sebastiani's Avatar
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    >> I only started three years ago, at 33 -- I wasn't getting any exercise, so I went to buy some roller blades at a sporting goods store. They also had cheapo skateboards (like $30), which at the time was not something I'd ever had an interest in, at all. Then I was standing there thinking, if I get roller blades, I would have to take them off when I got on transit, whereas a skateboard suddenly seemed like a brilliant idea (it was). I used to ski patrol, and I've worked as a bike courier downtown, so I thought heck, I should be able to handle this. IMO it is also much safer than roller blades altho harder to learn.

    Okay, so then we're actually about the same age. Wow, I'm suprised you didn't try it earlier, though. Where are you from?

    >> I still haven't met anyone my age who's so new (which is kind of funny, sometimes I will show up somewhere and the kids think I am some kind of hot shot until I get on the board , then they just think it's neat I'm doing it).

    Heheh. That is pretty funny. Yeah, actually, you do look like one of the old-school pro's, come to think of it.

    >> But I totally love it. Altho my intent at first was just basic transportation, after about a year I started checking out the parks -- there's a bunch in NYC, including one about twenty minutes walk away, right on the boardwalk next to a surfing beach (yes, I was stunned to learn people here surf). Not to contradict you old school street types, but the parks are a great idea and city hall did a great thing building them. Eventually I learned to "drop in" and skate the half pipe. Bowls and pools I have a harder time getting speed out of.

    Oh no, skate parks are great, it's just when they first started opening up in Houston they were heavily frequented by annoying posers. I'm sure that's changed by now - most people are there to skate, not to socialize/posture.

    >> Unfortunately, I think my days are numbered for this activity tho, I hurt my knee in the summer and it's still not 100% back -- I really really do not want to seriously damage it as this could rule me out of a lot of other activities I love, for the rest of my life. If you don't overdo it, of course, I think there are very few things that will strengthen your ankles as effectively.

    Aye - can't deny the age factor. I did a bit of skating a few months ago myself, and it was a little depressing, frankly. I actually got worn out pretty quickly, and was as clumsy as all get out. I'm sure I looked like a fool, as well. But maybe it would be good to take it up just to get a bit more exercise. I'd better get a helmet, though.

    >> It's a very technical, mental activity IMO, good for the body, mind, and soul. The ollie is like one of the hardest things I've ever learned (it's also very hard on that knee, too, unfortunately). I don't think I have the patience to work on tricks beyond that, but I do want to make it up on the curb from time to time.

    I never was one with the fancy-footwork tricks, personally (except for ollies, which are essential for certain mounts). Mostly just a cruise-and-catch-air kind of guy, I guess. I have a cousin that was always great with interesting moves - spinning the board, landing-on-then-hopping-on-the-nose, doing backflips on flat pavement, etc. Damned show-off. No, I really did enjoy his style, actually.

    >> There are hordes of skaters in NYC. Like, packs of them. On a pleasant evening like tonight, from about 3 or 4 pm on if I walk five minutes to the corner store I will probably see a few kids around practising tricks, and the entire city is more or less like that in residential areas.

    Well that's good to know. I guess NYC is perfect for that sort of thing, too.

    >> I went to a "International Skate Day" thing here last year (they do it all over the world on the summer solstice). There were two or three thousand kids on boards, which is, well, it has to be seen to be believed. The "organizers" herd everyone around Manhattan (in a kind of unorganized mass which completely blocked all traffic, for a quarter mile, when going from place to place), sometimes hitting the city parks and sometimes other spots that people have used since before the parks existed. The most stunning athletic event I have ever seen in my life (hands down, on TV or off) took place that day at one of the parks. I mean that completely honestly. People were lined up around the outside fence TEN DEEP and they would just fly at the box/ramp arrangement (which was maybe 15-20' feet across and up to four feet high) in the center as often as they dared, which was way way more often than sanity would dictate. There were constantly 3 or 4 guys (yes, sadly girls would be like <1%) getting 6' of air simultaneously, flying past each other from all directions, then lining up again -- as one guy landed going one way, someone would be taking off right behind him AND right in front of him. More than once I saw someone lose their board in mid air and some dude coming the opposite way would catch it in the air, totally spontaneously, land, circle round and give it back. This kind of intensity went on, non stop, for several hours (I just watched, mostly -- there were hundreds of people, all with boards lining the fence tops and on the bridge pilings nearby). I still cannot believe no one was hurt, AFAIK.

    Wow, that's truly awesome! I can only imagine. Must have been a tonne of chicks, too! Damn.
    Last edited by Sebastiani; 11-20-2009 at 06:05 PM.

  11. #116
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Missed your post when I added mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastiani View Post
    You know, I don't think I've ever seen anything from the Eastern-European realm - is there anything in particular that you'd recommend, or perhaps conferences, etc, that might be good resources for that sort of thing?
    I'm by no means an expert and it's been a few good years since I gradually been loosing interest. Mostly because it's hard to come by artistic animation these days. You do have straddlers like Tim Burton or the Hungarian George Pal. But aside from Tim Burton, it's very hard to come by these works in your general area stores (something that the big surfaces almost entirely wiped out is the ability we once had to find those pearls outside the mainstream).

    (Note I do realize I named two stop-motion artists. It's just a coincidence, despite my absolute love for stop-motion animation. These are just two names of the top of my head. But if you want another, the Polish Witold Giersz; a master of drawing animation.)

    Of course, then this also happened. 10 years later (that's today), I believe the golden years of Eastern European animation are over. In any case the work that was produced between the 60s and 80s still lives of course. If you are willing to spend the money this one one place where you can start:

    Amazon.com: Masters of Animation 3 [VHS]: John Halas: Video

    While an impressive collection, the author misses on at least one title that comes to my mind as one of the most amazing works of art coming of Eastern Europe: The Hand (also you shouldn't really also miss Trnka's adaptation of A Midsummer Night’s Dream, although if my memory serves me right, that DVD includes this one.)

    ...

    However animation is just a subset of what came of these countries. during the 60s and until the 80s. To me, the Golden Years. I had trouble with this post and had to do some reasearch. Here's more or less what you can expect to find and the style of these movies:

    Start with Raven. A flash-like animation artistically inspired on a common style during the Golden Years. The shadow figures (not animated, but indeed drawn), deaf motion picture, and classical musical score where very common. The story on this animation however is very modern. Recurrent themes were love, moral or ethical consideration, or hero defeats evil.

    This 1984 brilliant adaptation of Ray Bradbury's There Will Come Soft Rains, display a typical Russian signature of mixing stop-motion elements with drawn cartoons.

    Before proceeding further you may want to get your first glimpse into experimental animation which was definitely a Eastern European trademark. Polish animation was perhaps the richest in this regard. At Somnambulics you'll see it happening. I understand if you don't want to see it all. But keep in mind that while the Western world was reusing and refining traditional animation, the eastern block was innovating and creating enitrely new things they would later incorporate into their works.

    And the result was masterpieces like The Horse. It won't take you long to figure out how incredibly difficult it is to shoot this animation.

    Today, Poland still dominates along with France the European animation scene. Modern movies like Fallen Art are still artistically very evocative of the golden years.

    The brilliant III is one of the few examples that the art hasn't died yet on these countries. Revivalists like Jacub Lech still maintain to the finest detail the same tradition of the golden years, while using the modern tools at their disposal. But while the share with their ancestors the same lonely road, today its even lonelier in the presence of the highly visible, intrusive and mass marketed commercial animation of the west and... Japan.

    ...

    It would be very unfair of me to no mention the French animation. Along with Eastern Europe, France dominated the European animation culture for over 40 years. France work was sometimes even more stylized than Polish, Czech or Russian. They were particularly impressive in doing animation on just paper and pencil. One of my favorite styles along with Stop Motion.

    ...

    Some years ago I could probably do a better job at guiding you through animation history in Europe. But as I said, it's been many years since I started losing interest for one reason or another.

    There are some cartoons that will always reside on my memory. I was a particular fan of a style of Czech pencil & paper animation done usually in fast motion and using dark figures and scenery. The figures and the scene would constantly morph into new ones as the story was being told. But I can't seem to find any work online. And, of course, I can't remember titles or names.

    ...

    But I hope the above helps you get an idea. Eastern European animation (European animation in general) was not commercial in nature, was mostly composed of short films, was highly experimentalist and was above all a work of art, before ever attempting being a cartoon.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  12. #117
    Hail to the king, baby. Akkernight's Avatar
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    Sebastiani: wow, I never thought of the skating world this way, but it makes sense... I'm young, so I first started skateboarding when the first Tony Hawk game came out for PS, and I learnt to Ollie, but this other guy learnt to do kickflip and heelflip by the time I learn Ollie, so it kinda sucked and de-moralized me :P Anyways, my skater hero was Rodney Mullen, so I was wondering, was he one of the 'real' skaters that had taken a long time to learn their stuff, or was he one of those 'posers', that went for money shots and whatnot? :P
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  13. #118
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    This 1984 brilliant adaptation of Ray Bradbury's There Will Come Soft Rains, display a typical Russian signature of mixing stop-motion elements with drawn cartoons.
    Wow oh wow Mario -- I can't believe you are a fan of this stuff -- I have a postcard from a pastiche play of Bradbury stuff done here last year that they called "THERE WILL COME SOFT RAINS", based on the old story of a technological house that has survived the (suicidal demise of) it's human creators. My #1 choice of domain names is softrains dot com or softreigns dot com but I think they both are taken

    Anyway considering you present yourself as a right wing conservative (no offence intended, I assume that's your politics to which you are entitled an opinion) it just blows me away...I will check that list out...wierd
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