Now they're resorting to burgers

Sebastiani · 10-26-2009, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abachler

You are wrong, fat reserves have been shown to be directly related to recovery speed. Overweight people get sick less often, and less severely, and recover faster. An Overweight worker misses fewer work days due to communicable diseases (e.g. common cold, flu) than a 'Standard' worker. These workers also take less time to recover and return to work.

Citation, please?

I've been trying to rationalize why my intuition tells me that fat reserves would be more susceptible to harbor pathogens, but so far all I could come up with was the fact that there is less blood flow to fatty areas, meaning less immunological helpers circulating throughout. So I'm not sure how likely it is that there may be a correlation there.

Anyway, I'd argue that the impact of obesity to health is still of much significance. Not for all people, naturally, but for many it can be a major deficiency when fighting illness. If important muscular organs become infused with too much fatty tissue then they must work harder, and thus less efficiently. That, and the fact that there is more tissue overall for the various fluids to circulate through means the metabolic rate may be much lower than normal. Also, substances that would be more readily expelled otherwise may linger in the fatty tissues (which really relates to my first point).

Also, I think the attribition of thinness, per se, to higher rates of illness is fairly unlikely. Obviously, if the person is malnourished, it will certainly be more difficult to fend of pathogens. But the same goes for obese persons who are malnourished (eg. too much junk food). I'm fairly thin and haven't gotten sick in years, and when I do I recover quickly. This wasn't always the case. When I was younger, my primary caretaker wasn't exactly the most concious about the importance of wholesome foods, ample water consumption, clean air, exercise, etc, and as a result, I think, I was much more vulnerable to disease/infection/fatigue. Fortunately, someone did finally step in and remedy the situation, and my vitality/health did increase dramatically. Point being, those factors are *much* more important than weight, by several orders of magnitude. Beyond that, the most essential tool for healing is the mind itself, which operates on many levels to produce conducive conditions for self-repair. That's overlooked way too often, I think.

So in short, a healthy lifestyle plus positive thinking generally ensures the best protection against illness, all things considered.

Yarin · 10-26-2009, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abachler

You are wrong, fat reserves have been shown to be directly related to recovery speed. Overweight people get sick less often, and less severely, and recover faster. An Overweight worker misses fewer work days due to communicable diseases (e.g. common cold, flu) than a 'Standard' worker. These workers also take less time to recover and return to work.

Ha ha, if we didn't already know you were overweight, this would've cinched it.

I would have to disagree... I don't know whether or not excess fat makes the body more seductible or not (though if I had to make an educated guess, I would guess that it does). But I do know that a person of normal weight is much more likely to have a healthy lifestyle than an obese person.

Mario F. · 10-26-2009, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zacs7

Either way, there's a reason why you don't see fat people in the Olympics.

You don't see all the events, do you?

bithub · 10-26-2009, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mario F.

You don't see all the events, do you?

True, some of those shot-put athletes are pretty big. And let's face it; at the rate the Olympic Committee is adding new events every year, it's only a matter of time before hot-dog eating is an official sport of the Olympic games.

Sebastiani · 10-26-2009, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mario F.

You don't see all the events, do you?

Eh? As in...?

bithub · 10-26-2009, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastiani

Eh? As in...?

How about Sumo wrestlers?

Mario F. · 10-26-2009, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastiani

Eh? As in...?

Shooting and Archery;
Weight-lifting;
Hammer, Discus and Javelin throw;
Judo;(*)
Table Tennis,

All sports and events where you can see overweight or obese people.

(*)2008 introduced the +100 Kgs event. Very entertaining.

abachler · 10-26-2009, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yarin

Ha ha, if we didn't already know you were overweight, this would've cinched it.

I would have to disagree... I don't know whether or not excess fat makes the body more seductible or not (though if I had to make an educated guess, I would guess that it does). But I do know that a person of normal weight is much more likely to have a healthy lifestyle than an obese person.

There is a vast difference between being overweight and being obese. Then you have to define healthy lifestyle. Because obviously the media skews it to mean being skinny. I'm classified as being overweight, but I can still lift 100+ lbs of groceries and carry them into the house in one trip without breathing heavy. My most recent cardiology checkup found

Quote:

No buildup of any clinical significance.

My blood pressure is normal. I have no permanent restrictions to my range of motion and in fact am quite a bit more limber than the average 'healthy lifestyle' person. (I pinched a muscle in my neck carrying firewood).

So show proof that your so called healthy lifestyle increases resistance and recovery from H1N1.

In fact the only way to finish this argument is to conduct a study. So lets get 1000 fat bastards like me and 1000 scrawny toothpicks like you and inject ourselves with H1N1 and see how many of each group drop dead, how long each group is sick, and how soon they are physically able to perform various job related tasks. Since you champion the skinny people, you get to pick that group, and I'll pick the fat group, and you and I will both be part of our respective groups (i.e. we get injected too). Everyone gets the exact same dose regardless of weight or if you prefer by lung capacity.

Mario F. · 10-26-2009, 11:40 AM

Can I do... I dunno, something? I can do the recording. But only if I get injected too. Need my yearly dose of flu. Work is being a drag.

**laserlight** · 10-26-2009, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abachler

So show proof that your so called healthy lifestyle increases resistance and recovery from H1N1.

In fact the only way to finish this argument is to conduct a study. So lets get 1000 fat bastards like me and 1000 scrawny toothpicks like you and inject ourselves with H1N1 and see how many of each group drop dead, how long each group is sick, and how soon they are physically able to perform various job related tasks. Since you champion the skinny people, you get to pick that group, and I'll pick the fat group, and you and I will both be part of our respective groups (i.e. we get injected too). Everyone gets the exact same dose regardless of weight or if you prefer by lung capacity.

I vaguely recall something about H1N1 being an anomaly among its kind in that healthy people, or at least those not normally regarded as high risk, were more susceptible than usual, possibly even more so than those in the usual high risk groups. If this is true (and even if it is not), then the study would not prove that being a "fat bastard" is not worse than being a "scrawny toothpick" in general where resistance to and recovery from such illnesses is concerned.

Sebastiani · 10-26-2009, 12:06 PM

Quote:

How about Sumo wrestlers?

Really? Wow, I can't remember ever seeing that one.

Quote:

Shooting and Archery;
Weight-lifting;
Hammer, Discus and Javelin throw;
Judo;(*)
Table Tennis,
All sports and events where you can see overweight or obese people.
(*)2008 introduced the +100 Kgs event. Very entertaining.

Okay, weight-lifting, discus, and javalin I have seen. Sorry, it's been a while since I really paid much attention to the Olympics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by abachler

There is a vast difference between being overweight and being obese. Then you have to define healthy lifestyle. Because obviously the media skews it to mean being skinny. I'm classified as being overweight, but I can still lift 100+ lbs of groceries and carry them into the house in one trip without breathing heavy. My most recent cardiology checkup found My blood pressure is normal. I have no permanent restrictions to my range of motion and in fact am quite a bit more limber than the average 'healthy lifestyle' person. (I pinched a muscle in my neck carrying firewood).

If you genuinely feel healthy, then you probably are. But there are many who are not. I've know quite a few of them, actually.

Quote:

So show proof that your so called healthy lifestyle increases resistance and recovery from H1N1. In fact the only way to finish this argument is to conduct a study. So lets get 1000 fat bastards like me and 1000 scrawny toothpicks like you and inject ourselves with H1N1 and see how many of each group drop dead, how long each group is sick, and how soon they are physically able to perform various job related tasks. Since you champion the skinny people, you get to pick that group, and I'll pick the fat group, and you and I will both be part of our respective groups (i.e. we get injected too). Everyone gets the exact same dose regardless of weight or if you prefer by lung capacity.

I say we up the ante. HIV?

bithub · 10-26-2009, 12:45 PM

Doing a search on "h1n1 fat people" seems to return articles like this one or this one that indicate swine flu is more lethal for fat people. I haven't seen a single article that asserts a claim similar to abachler's (that fat people are less susceptible to the virus).

Yarin · 10-26-2009, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abachler

There is a vast difference between being overweight and being obese. Then you have to define healthy lifestyle. Because obviously the media skews it to mean being skinny. I'm classified as being overweight, but I can still lift 100+ lbs of groceries and carry them into the house in one trip without breathing heavy. My most recent cardiology checkup found My blood pressure is normal. I have no permanent restrictions to my range of motion and in fact am quite a bit more limber than the average 'healthy lifestyle' person. (I pinched a muscle in my neck carrying firewood).

So show proof that your so called healthy lifestyle increases resistance and recovery from H1N1.

In fact the only way to finish this argument is to conduct a study. So lets get 1000 fat bastards like me and 1000 scrawny toothpicks like you and inject ourselves with H1N1 and see how many of each group drop dead, how long each group is sick, and how soon they are physically able to perform various job related tasks. Since you champion the skinny people, you get to pick that group, and I'll pick the fat group, and you and I will both be part of our respective groups (i.e. we get injected too). Everyone gets the exact same dose regardless of weight or if you prefer by lung capacity.

I wasn't trying to implying that you're obese. I also deliberately avoided the word 'skinny', because I do think that (for most people) 'skinny' is not an optimum weight.
In the circle of friends that I have, the more overweight they are, they more they snack on unhealthy food, the easier it is to wear them out, the more sensitive to cold/hot they are, their can't lift things as well, they look a little worse, etc.. But I have yet to see a positive thing. (except maybe for having a better chance of surviving through a famine)
I don't notice them being more or less sick, but overall health and natural immune system strength aren't the same, even if they are linked.
You say that you feel healthy. That's great. But you'd probably feel overall better off (health included, but not exclusively) if you were to loose some weight.

IceDane · 11-03-2009, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abachler

You are wrong, fat reserves have been shown to be directly related to recovery speed. Overweight people get sick less often, and less severely, and recover faster. An Overweight worker misses fewer work days due to communicable diseases (e.g. common cold, flu) than a 'Standard' worker. These workers also take less time to recover and return to work.

That might be true, but then all of a sudden your never-sick-from-work guy dies from a heart attack at the age of 43.

mike_g · 11-03-2009, 09:26 PM

Ok, lets set a few myths straight: fat people are generally lazy lumps of lard unless they live in the arctic. I'm skinny, and I used to get sick a lot. Probably mostly from living in hostels getting drunk all the time. More recently I started running. I do about 50K per week, and I never get sick anymore. It makes me sweat like a pig, and it has caused me to lose even more weight to the point that I'm nothing but bone and muscle, but I never get sick anymore. Physical fitness and healthy eating are the two main determining factors in immune system performance. Not saying fat people can't be fit - its just usually they are not.

10-26-2009, 11:40 AM	#24
Mario F. (?<!re)tired Join Date: May 2006 Location: Portugal Posts: 5,220	Can I do... I dunno, something? I can do the recording. But only if I get injected too. Need my yearly dose of flu. Work is being a drag. __________________ Originally Posted by brewbuck: Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.
Mario F. is offline

10-26-2009, 12:45 PM	#27
bithub Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: California Posts: 2,845	Doing a search on "h1n1 fat people" seems to return articles like this one or this one that indicate swine flu is more lethal for fat people. I haven't seen a single article that asserts a claim similar to abachler's (that fat people are less susceptible to the virus). __________________ bit∙hub [bit-huhb] n. A source and destination for information.
bithub is offline

11-03-2009, 09:26 PM	#30
mike_g Wheres the lesbians? Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: UK Posts: 1,219	Ok, lets set a few myths straight: fat people are generally lazy lumps of lard unless they live in the arctic. I'm skinny, and I used to get sick a lot. Probably mostly from living in hostels getting drunk all the time. More recently I started running. I do about 50K per week, and I never get sick anymore. It makes me sweat like a pig, and it has caused me to lose even more weight to the point that I'm nothing but bone and muscle, but I never get sick anymore. Physical fitness and healthy eating are the two main determining factors in immune system performance. Not saying fat people can't be fit - its just usually they are not. __________________ Senior highbrow doctor of authority.
mike_g is offline

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