"It's very difficult, but ... in Africa people eat monkeys"

This is a discussion on "It's very difficult, but ... in Africa people eat monkeys" within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; And that, boys and girls, is how AIDS was passed to humans. Or so says researcher Francois Simon, in an ...

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    Guest Sebastiani's Avatar
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    "It's very difficult, but ... in Africa people eat monkeys"

    And that, boys and girls, is how AIDS was passed to humans. Or so says researcher Francois Simon, in an article distributed by CNN.

    The comment is pretty ignorant, of course, but nonetheless comical. I guess it beats the astroid origin theory, anyway.

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    Personally, I think it's more likely someone did the birds and bees with a primate.

    And that, boys and girls, is how AIDS was passed to humans.

    Somebody out there, somebody out there...
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    Theories abound... but it's possible that a simian virus was somehow (cue the "let's assume the most damning activity theorists) passed to humans. Perhaps a human got bitten or scratched once. Can happen... perhaps with the transportation (as pets) or other contact-prone environment that country offers.

    That article does nothing to malign Simon of the Pasteur Institute in Paris. There is nothing ignorant about stating the facts. The last sentence in the article supports this: "Many scientists believe the virus spread to humans through infected ape or monkey meat.".

    So do you have any problem with this, or do you just wish to see racism in everything?

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    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastiani View Post
    And that, boys and girls, is how AIDS was passed to humans. Or so says researcher Francois Simon, in an article distributed by CNN.

    The comment is pretty ignorant, of course, but nonetheless comical. I guess it beats the astroid origin theory, anyway.
    That's not a new theory, but it is the generally accepted theory in the field of aids research. AIDS has actually been around for thousands of years, it just never became a problem before modern times. AIDS historians generally believe it was the colonization of Africa that created the conditions necessary. Colonists drove the natives off the plains and into the jungles, where they ate bush meat to survive. I don't know if you have ever hunted monkeys, but they aren't passive timid prey like a deer, they fight back, and they are good at it.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

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    Why are you suddenly bringing up an 11 year old article?

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    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastiani View Post
    And that, boys and girls, is how AIDS was passed to humans. Or so says researcher Francois Simon, in an article distributed by CNN.
    If I were to eat an human infected with aids, chances are I'd get AIDS. I'm not very confident on my digestive acids to eliminate any traces of the virus and my intestine tract would gladly absorb them into my circulatory system. So, not eating humans with AIDS sounds to me (not really, but for other reasons) as good advise as not eating monkeys with AIDS.
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    Guest Sebastiani's Avatar
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    >> Personally, I think it's more likely someone did the birds and bees with a primate.

    Seriously?

    >> Perhaps a human got bitten or scratched once. Can happen... perhaps with the transportation (as pets) or other contact-prone environment that country offers.

    Except that AIDS isn't like the flu. It just doesn't spread so easily.

    >> So do you have any problem with this, or do you just wish to see racism in everything?

    It has nothing to do with racism. I was referring to the fact that seemed an unlikely cause. Maybe a certain percentage of the population eats monkey, but I hardly think that's the general case. It would be more likely that the virus would have been most prevalant in the jungles amongst tribesmen, but the highest concentration was in fact in larger cities. Monkey meat might be available in those areas, but then again I don't imagine that monkey burgers are a very common meal, either. The real problem with that theory though is that it is extremely unlikely that the virus would have survived after being cooked, so it would have to have been eaten raw or at least extremely rare.

    >> AIDS historians generally believe it was the colonization of Africa that created the conditions necessary. Colonists drove the natives off the plains and into the jungles, where they ate bush meat to survive. I don't know if you have ever hunted monkeys, but they aren't passive timid prey like a deer, they fight back, and they are good at it.

    As entertaining as the idea of bushmen wrestling their meal into submission is, that just doesn't seem a likely scenario to me.

    >> Why are you suddenly bringing up an 11 year old article?

    Why not?

    >> If I were to eat an human infected with aids, chances are I'd get AIDS. I'm not very confident on my digestive acids to eliminate any traces of the virus and my intestine tract would gladly absorb them into my circulatory system. So, not eating humans with AIDS sounds to me (not really, but for other reasons) as good advise as not eating monkeys with AIDS.

    Look at how AIDS has spread in the United States. By far the most common modes of transmission are intravaneous means (needles) and male-to-partner seminal contact (female-to-partner transmission is much more rare). AIDS simply isn't so contagious. Given that, I think it's unlikely that it would spread so far and so wide.

    Anyway, yes, there are many theories. I just don't think the "bushmeat" hypothesis is a very good one. Personally, I would consider the OPV (oral polio vaccination) theory to be one of the most plausible, although it too leaves many questions. But considering that: 1) The vaccination was cultured in monkey tissue, 2) The cultures were not rigorously 'distilled', as the polio virus was not to be 'killed' but 'weakened' (live cultures generally produce longer lasting results), 3) The vaccine was administered to at least one million residents of the Kinshasa area within the period of about one year during the campaign (beginning in 1958), 4) The earliest found tissue samples containing AIDS date to 1958 and 1959, both residents of Kinshasa, 5) The epicenter of the virus is the Belgian Congo, most notably the capital city, Kinshasa.

    Seems likely to me, anyway, but again the evidence isn't conclusive, either, by any means (not to mention that it wouldn't be fair to tarnish the reputation of a company and so many respected scientists, based merely on circumstantial evidence).

    There are really a number of possible explanations, anyway. I don't think the bushmeat hypothesis is one of them, though.

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    >> Why not?
    No reason, I was just curious. I'm wondering how far the knowledge on the subject has advanced since then, but maybe that's beside your point.

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    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    The earliest found infections were in Egyptian mummies, or don't you stay current on the topics you bring up. Oh wait, bringing up a 11 year old article like its news kind of answers that question.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

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    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daved View Post
    Why are you suddenly bringing up an 11 year old article?
    Because Sebastiani enjoyed the 1990's more and is refusing to leave.

    I can very distinctly recall watching the news sometime around 1985? when AIDS first made the front page. Even at that time, the story was very explicit that the suspected origin was simians in Africa. They actually had a diagram-map with photographs of the people first diagnosed with it in the western world. I am not sure who the missing link was, but his friend was a Swedish stewardess (honestly) who apparently "got around". I can remember that part because it made sense to my pre-teen mind that a stewardess would "get around" since they work on planes. Which I guess that was the case.

    Of course some bi-sexuals were involved and slightly later it started spreading thru gay populations, then it finally came out that the US military was secretly responsible.
    Last edited by MK27; 09-30-2009 at 02:58 PM.
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    Current ISO draft standard
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    <racist joke>

    Why does AIDS spread in Africa?
    - Because black hole pulls everything towards itself.

    </racist joke>

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    Dr Dipshi++ mike_g's Avatar
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    I can very distinctly recall watching the news sometime around 1985?
    Lol, I can remeber the AIDS frenzy of the 80s. When I was 4 I watched this tv program bout how everyone had AIDS and became convinced that I had it because I did not wash my hands after going to the toilet. I never told anyone, but would worry about it now and then. Still at the time I always looked on the bright side in that I would be able to live till I was 9 and that seemed like forever.

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    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    but his friend was a Swedish stewardess (honestly) who apparently "got around".
    The proper appellation is Steward, as he was male, even if he may have occasionally played the female role.
    Quote Originally Posted by google search for steward aids wikipedia
    A Canadian airline steward named Gatan Dugas was referred to as "Patient 0" in an early AIDS study by Dr. William Darrow of the Centers for Disease Control
    Last edited by abachler; 09-30-2009 at 03:57 PM.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

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    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abachler View Post
    The proper appellation is Steward, as he was male, even if he may have occasionally played the female role.
    No way man. I remember her long blond hair in the picture.

    Thanks for that abachler, pretty interesting how my mind distorts things over time...
    Last edited by MK27; 09-30-2009 at 04:18 PM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

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