A ++ ?

This is a discussion on A ++ ? within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; What is A++ ? I see books on it in the book stores. Is it just another lang ? What ...

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    Registered User kryptkat's Avatar
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    A ++ ?

    What is A++ ? I see books on it in the book stores. Is it just another lang ? What are the advantages of A++ over C++ ? The books are kinda expensive. Tia

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    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kryptkat View Post
    What are the advantages of A++ over C++ ?
    Two letter grades... and at the end of the month, the teacher gives you a piece of candy.
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    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    This is an excellent reference IMO kryptkat:

    A++: An Introduction for Otherwise Experienced Programmers
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

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    and the Hat of Guessing tabstop's Avatar
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    Are you sure you saw A++? Or maybe A+ instead?

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    Registered User kryptkat's Avatar
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    In case I did not say it that I had done a few searches before and this was all I came up with in the search for aplusplus but not much cplusplus comparison or clear description of what the heck it is really I think that could be better wroten with some examples shown in the searches of course and not just buzz words that are general for most langs because they do not always mean the same things or have diff words for the same things breath dangit whith all terms considered.

    Fairly sure it was a++

    A++ - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    History

    A++ was developed in 2002 with the purpose to serve as a learning instrument rather than as a programming language used to solve practical problems.

    It is supposed to be an efficient tool to become familiar with the core of programming and with programming patterns that can be applied in other languages needed to face the real world.
    [edit] Purpose

    A++, with its interpreter available in Scheme, Java, C, C++ and Python, offers an ideal environment for basic training in programming, enforcing rigorous confrontation with the essentials of programming languages.


    Development of applications with A++

    The purpose of A++ is not to be used as a programming language to write applications for the needs of the real world. Nevertheless it is possible to write simple application programs in A++ like object oriented implementations of a simple account handling and a library management system.
    contradictory see what I mean ?

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    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kryptkat View Post
    In case I did not say it that I had done a few searches before and this was all I came up with in the search for aplusplus but not much cplusplus comparison
    Hmm, so if I google "alphabet soup" or "some topic with my friend's initials in it" will I be disappointed in the extent to which the material I find fails to provide much of a comparison with C++? Who cares? Perhaps they should also provide comparisons with lisp, perl, fortran, asm, lsd, and realBASIC.

    This A++ idea is not a good one, maybe staring at the screen will help. Or maybe it is just plain wonderful. Why don't you just download the interpreter and read the documentation? I am positive that is available thru the link I gave you, since A++ has a homepage with links like "download" and "documentation".
    Last edited by MK27; 09-27-2009 at 03:54 PM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

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    and the Hat of Guessing tabstop's Avatar
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    I only asked because you say you "see books on it in the book stores". Using amazon.com as a guide, amazon has 0 books on A++, and 80,000 books on A+ certification.

    I also don't see why you say the two bits you quoted are contradictory, since they say the same thing (that the language was not designed to actually be used). I mean after all Pascal was designed to be a practically useless language, and yet people build things in that too.

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    Registered User kryptkat's Avatar
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    The link you provided only pulled up a searchengine. I found the home page. So it is a free interpreter. Ok. I was thinking it was larger and very costly.

    It is the bottom quote that is contradictory. First it says “A++ is not to be used as a programming language” then it says “it is possible to write simple application programs in A++ “ see ?

    Downloaded interpreter. Think basic if far better because you can actually do some thing with it. I now know a little more about a++ just from finding the home page for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kryptkat View Post
    It is the bottom quote that is contradictory. First it says “A++ is not to be used as a programming language” then it says “it is possible to write simple application programs in A++ “ see ?
    That's...not contradictory at all.

    There are lots of languages out there (Alice is the only one I can think of off the top of my head), which are designed primarily to introduce beginners to the fundamentals of programming. However, most of them are pretty much useless for creating anything non-trivial. The quote makes perfect sense if you don't cut off the last few words, it says that while A++ can make perfectly good working applications, it shouldn't be considered a 'real' programming language because you're never going to create new solutions for actual problems, what they call 'the needs of the real world'. So if you want to develop a new web browser or something, A++ apparently isn't the way to go.

    IMHO as a newbie, the idea of 'teaching languages' in general doesn't really make much sense to me. Maybe I'm just impatient, but it seems like it'd be quicker, and probably more beneficial for people to cut their teeth on a language that can actually be used to make something significant. I might just be a snob, though. ^_^;
    Last edited by Angie; 09-27-2009 at 08:17 PM.

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    and the Hat of Guessing tabstop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kryptkat View Post
    The link you provided only pulled up a searchengine. I found the home page. So it is a free interpreter. Ok. I was thinking it was larger and very costly.

    It is the bottom quote that is contradictory. First it says “A++ is not to be used as a programming language” then it says “it is possible to write simple application programs in A++ “ see ?

    Downloaded interpreter. Think basic if far better because you can actually do some thing with it. I now know a little more about a++ just from finding the home page for it.
    The first does not say that "A++ is not to be used as a programming language" -- quite the opposite. It says that A++, as a programming language, was designed to teach and not to be practical. A toy, but a learning toy nonetheless. Even a toy language has to be able to do something if you are to learn something from it. (EDIT: Compare with Intercal or whitespace, which are not designed to teach and where it is more or less impossible to do anything whatsoever.)

    (EDIT EDIT: Programming languages designed to teach often are designed to trap thinking errors as well as typing errors/syntax errors and enforce things being perfectly correct -- things like type-safety, strong typing, bounds checking. Often seen in conjunction with I/O as a complete afterthought. IMO Pascal is still a very good example of both the pros and cons of the approach.)
    Last edited by tabstop; 09-27-2009 at 08:34 PM.

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    Dae
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    A+ is a programming language.
    A++ is a lambda calculus language (implemented in many different programming languages).
    Warning: Have doubt in anything I post.

    GCC 4.5, Boost 1.40, Code::Blocks 8.02, Ubuntu 9.10 010001000110000101100101

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    Registered User kryptkat's Avatar
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    I was looking for more information on proxys and kept running in to those books. Both the a+ and a++
    were next to the networking books for some reason.

    Pascal and modula 2 are good programming langs to teach top down programming concept. At least they are close to c and usable to actually do something. If I remember correctly you can use asm in the pascal progs. Much like you can in c.

    If I am going to learn another lang I want it to be able to do something useful like basic or c. meow. even changing the compiler that you use with in the same lang can show you your mistakes like when I also started using devcpp.

    I guess it depends on what you consider “real world needs”. Teaching a lang that has no real use is just someone sitting back collecting money with out giving the students a real skill that they can actually use.
    a+ comes off as being identical to cobol as a business lang. But they are both usable to the right person.

    (EDIT EDIT: Programming languages designed to teach often are designed to trap thinking errors as well as typing errors/syntax errors and enforce things being perfectly correct -- things like type-safety, strong typing, bounds checking. Often seen in conjunction with I/O as a complete afterthought. IMO Pascal is still a very good example of both the pros and cons of the approach.)
    then what are compiler errors for ? <joke>

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    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kryptkat View Post
    Pascal and modula 2 are good programming langs to teach top down programming concept. At least they are close to c and usable to actually do something. If I remember correctly you can use asm in the pascal progs. Much like you can in c.
    Yippie, skippy. So what would your idea of a bad programming language be then? French? Try and name an existing language to which the phrase "usable to actually do something" would not apply in this sense...

    If I am going to learn another lang I want it to be able to do something useful like basic or c. meow. even changing the compiler that you use with in the same lang can show you your mistakes like when I also started using devcpp.
    Yes, mostly because the memory segmentation is slightly different. Different is not better, BTW.

    I guess it depends on what you consider “real world needs”.
    Okay, here's a ticket: libraries. Like there will not be any for A++, or A+. Good luck with your networking code! Just stay with basic! What's the difference? They do not even appear to have any string handling potential...these were somebody else's pet project. Also, I bet $500000000000 dollars NO ONE has written a published book on either of them*, so you are thoroughly confused at the library as well.

    You would have to be absolutely crazy to learn either of those languages in the hopes that they could have any serious practical use what-so-ever. You might as well learn this:

    BrainF - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia........

    * except for A++ - The Smallest Programming Language in the World, but as Dae notes, A++ does not work on it's own anyway.
    Last edited by MK27; 09-29-2009 at 04:55 PM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

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    Registered User kryptkat's Avatar
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    A++ Certification Level 2 (Paperback - Nov 15, 2001)
    1 Used & new from $35.00
    Books: See all 2,399 items
    now how do I get paid ?

    Amazon.com: a++

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    and the Hat of Guessing tabstop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kryptkat View Post
    now how do I get paid ?

    Amazon.com: a++
    Did you look at that title? Did you notice it's a certification manual, not about a programming language? Did you notice that 0 of the books in that amazon.com search have A++ in the title (except the one you found, which apparently is not even a book, because Thomson doesn't recognize the ISBN given there)?

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