Insulted for using C++?

This is a discussion on Insulted for using C++? within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; Maybe there was just 3 people in which case "some" would have been a better choice. Sorry, maybe I should ...

  1. #31
    l'Anziano DavidP's Avatar
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    Maybe there was just 3 people in which case "some" would have been a better choice.
    Sorry, maybe I should have been more definitive in my word choice. I merely wanted to show my preference towards C++, but I did not mean to publicly try and demote Java or C#. I actually love using C#. I think it's a great language. I prefer not to use Java, but I find a use for it every once in awhile. That's just my personal preference, but I make no statement about regarding its usefulness or excellence as a programming language in the software development world.
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  2. #32
    Registered User NeonBlack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bithub View Post
    Saying C# or Java is better than C++ is like saying a hammer is better than a screwdriver. All it does it display the person's ignorance surrounds the tools.
    I like that analogy. Next time someone asks me the difference between C and javascript, I'll use it.

    But C++ C# and Java can have a lot of overlap in application, so I think it would be more like the difference between a band saw and a jig saw.
    I copied it from the last program in which I passed a parameter, which would have been pre-1989 I guess. - esbo

  3. #33
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeonBlack View Post
    I like that analogy. Next time someone asks me the difference between C and javascript, I'll use it.

    But C++ C# and Java can have a lot of overlap in application, so I think it would be more like the difference between a band saw and a jig saw.
    More like the difference between a feather duster(C#) adn a powerwasher(C++).

    Sure you don't wanna use a feather duster to clean the siding (big high performance application), but you don't want a powerwasher to clean the lampshades (overkill for a web page).
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

  4. #34
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abachler View Post
    Sure you don't wanna use a feather duster to clean the siding (big high performance application), but you don't want a powerwasher to clean the lampshades (overkill for a web page).
    What the are you talking about ?

    Quote Originally Posted by laserlight View Post
    To be fair, you could do that with C# too
    More subtle, less sharp. The source.
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    Last edited by MK27; 09-16-2009 at 01:02 PM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

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    Registered User NeonBlack's Avatar
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    Nice one, MK.

    There are a lot of times where it doesn't make a difference whether you use C# or C++ and it's up to personal preference. (But never Java!)
    So Abachler, maybe a vacuum and a hand-vac?
    I copied it from the last program in which I passed a parameter, which would have been pre-1989 I guess. - esbo

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    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeonBlack View Post
    Nice one, MK.
    Thanks!

    Pretty sure "the javascript engine" or interpreter or whatever is usually written in C++ (like the browser itself), so this previous distinction seems kind of illusory IMO.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

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    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    Thanks!

    Pretty sure "the javascript engine" or interpreter or whatever is usually written in C++ (like the browser itself), so this previous distinction seems kind of illusory IMO.
    That depends on the JavaScript engine. JavaScript engines have been written in many languages, including ... JavaScript.
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  8. #38
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bithub View Post
    That depends on the JavaScript engine. JavaScript engines have been written in many languages, including ... JavaScript.
    LOL! Great name for that. Wow.

    My two new words for the day: homoiconic and meta-circular. Altho I have heard about this before when researching the origin of eval(), which started in lisp.
    Last edited by MK27; 09-16-2009 at 03:02 PM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

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    {Jaxom,Imriel,Liam}'s Dad Kennedy's Avatar
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    Ah lisp, now therth tha languith.

  10. #40
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Kennedy View Post
    Ah lisp, now therth tha languith.


    I got into gimp-fu a little bit recently. Natively, it's done in "scheme", but there is a plug-in for python. Not knowing either one, I figured I'd just learn some rudimentary scheme -- but (YUCK! (it (is (just (horrible)))) -- I ended up using the plug-in.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  11. #41
    Registered User NeonBlack's Avatar
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    Wow, I didn't know that anyone used Scheme outside of freshman CS courses. I have done my scheme myself, but messing around with lisp made me glad to have brace matching when you get lines that end like this )))))))).
    I copied it from the last program in which I passed a parameter, which would have been pre-1989 I guess. - esbo

  12. #42
    Dae
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    I don't know what it is that thinks your wrong. Don't get me wrong, you all make good (albeit obvious) points. Maybe its because I've actually tried learning all 3 of these languages when I was newer. I definitely ran into more troubles using C++ than C# and Java combined. C# was pretty great, and I gave up on Java (seemed like the worst - more jobs or not). C/C++ has more libraries, but they usually have different usage, documentation, dependencies, and bugs. You do recreate data structures to begin with, but when that's said and done don't you use the ones included in the standard library.
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  13. #43
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Ultimately any serious/critical/performance sensistive code will be written in C++ because high performance requires a finer degree of control than either java or c# give you. All the safety rails of java/c# actually just hold back a programmer that knows what they are doing. Maybe I want to use SSE instructions to do a streaming memcpy() on unaligned char arrays and I don't want to spend half an hour convincing the compiler I know what I'm doing.

    The safety rail that keeps you from shooting yourself in the foot also keeps you from shooting the snake that is about to bite your ankle.

    When you have been programming as long as I have, you really tend to disregard the very notion that a programmer needs to be protected from making mistakes. There will never be a programming language in which it is the least bit difficult to write buggy code.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

  14. #44
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeonBlack View Post
    Wow, I didn't know that anyone used Scheme outside of freshman CS courses. I have done my scheme myself, but messing around with lisp made me glad to have brace matching when you get lines that end like this )))))))).
    There is a great mail list thread somewhere where the GIMP author (which gimp is pure C, but uses the "tinyscheme" interpreter to process gimp-fu scripts) fields multiple and apparently befuddling, to him, inquires from people looking for the python plug-in (it's now become standard) or docs. He just cannot understand why people don't like scheme and would prefer something else, he says scheme is a terrific and easy to use language that is used to teach CS at MIT, that there is nothing special about python if that is what you want but, blah blah blah.

    The disadvantage of the python one is that you must restart gimp if you alter the scripts, whereas the scheme ones can be reloaded. I sort of think that is his revenge
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  15. #45
    Guest Sebastiani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dae View Post
    I don't know what it is that thinks your wrong. Don't get me wrong, you all make good (albeit obvious) points. Maybe its because I've actually tried learning all 3 of these languages when I was newer. I definitely ran into more troubles using C++ than C# and Java combined. C# was pretty great, and I gave up on Java (seemed like the worst - more jobs or not). C/C++ has more libraries, but they usually have different usage, documentation, dependencies, and bugs. You do recreate data structures to begin with, but when that's said and done don't you use the ones included in the standard library.
    The most glaring, and in my view, unforgivable, omission from these languages is the deterministic destructor. It really irritates me, honestly.

    Besides that (and this may be an over-generalized observation) in my experience, it seems that most Java/C# programmers have a tendency to be much less proficient at the algorithmic aspect of writing code, which indicates to me that the fact that the very design of these languages discourages "fine-grain" control actually inhibits a deeper understanding of computer science. C/C++, on the other hand, really force you to consider the effects of *everything* you do, which I think results in much more robust programmers (in general, at least), as a result.

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