Obama on health care

This is a discussion on Obama on health care within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; My point was because it is so "sacred", "Freedom"* in the US is little more than a slogan you use ...

  1. #31
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    My point was because it is so "sacred", "Freedom"* in the US is little more than a slogan you use to browbeat each other politically, which then makes it impossible to use the word in a serious or meaningful way.
    This may be true (I'm not saying I agree with it), but it's still beside the point. My point was that Americans in general prefer choice due to what has been ingrained in us culturally. This is what makes something like a single government provider system a hard sell to many people.

    Well, I happen to have a friend here in America who worked for 25 years in construction, eventually becoming a certified plumber, and also a mechanic. Then a few years ago, in his mid-forties, he decided to leave the job he was doing to come care for his very elderly, widowed mother for a while. He just got diagnosed with cancer and has been told that since he is currently uninsured and cannot possibly afford treatment, he will most likely die in the next 12 months.
    That's a sad story, and indeed does illustrate a problem with the current healthcare system.
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  2. #32
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    Just to make it clear: I've heard this said before and to be honest, I don't believe it.
    I do not care what you believe this is not a second hand story. There were two Canadians on my virtual fighter squadron that were both from Canada and neither one had good things to say about the health care system.

  3. #33
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bithub View Post
    My point was that Americans in general prefer choice due to what has been ingrained in us culturally. This is what makes something like a single government provider system a hard sell to many people.
    Note that a public health care system doesn't preclude private health care. They coexist in about any country implementing public health care. It however does bring a lot of other problems into the table:

    - Medical professionals are better payed in the private sector. Consequently it is not very appealing to a large number of them. This puts a lot of stress into the public health care system by forcing the governments to both increase pay costs to keep some kind of balance and pass laws to force professionals into dedicating x amount of time to the public system every year. A type of regulation that is probably totally unacceptable in the USA.

    - This is the primary reason for the public health care cancer: Waiting Lists. Except on highly regulated countries (mostly Eastern Europe country still maintaining a Soviet ideological influence on their health care sector) medical professionals spend their professional lives serving both areas. So the much larger public health care system shares its human resources, slowing down responsiveness.

    The solution to this has been discussed. One area believes there can be a better coordination between the private and public sector, with the latter sending the former its waiting patients when appropriate and paying the bill according to pre-established agreements (my favorite option). Another area defends that the solution is to increase the public sector appeal by investing more in facilities, working conditions and wages (I do not support this).

    in any case the public health care system doesn't remove the ability of people to choose (doesn't affect their freedom). It's however true that the satellite private sector is no match in terms of offerings. There's less to choose from and after you do, you are also confronted with certain types of treatment that only the public can deliver.
    Last edited by Mario F.; 09-10-2009 at 06:22 PM.
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  4. #34
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
    I do not care what you believe this is not a second hand story. There were two Canadians on my virtual fighter squadron that were both from Canada and neither one had good things to say about the health care system.
    Okay, Bubba, I pretty much will love you forever now.

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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    Okay, Bubba, I pretty much will love you forever now.

    ...
    What you're saying doesn't really mean much to statistics. A look on the internet and it would not take you very long to find numerous complaints about the Canadian health care system from Canadians as well as many citizens seeking emergency care in other nations. You might not personally know any of them, but they are out there... I mean, I could just as easily tell you that I've never personally known anyone who had an issue with their health care here in the US. All my friends and family are employed, have great rates from their employers, and have never had financial troubles due to their health care prices. This doesn't mean that there isn't a problem in the US, which is why I wouldn't bother bringing it up... so really, why should we think Bubba isn't be honest simply because one Canadian never knew anyone with a problem? Personal experience is always a weak argument and it's just as simple for me to brush off you great experiences with Canadian health care as it is to brush off the second-hand experiences that Bubba has provided. Really they both mean nothing in the long run.
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  6. #36
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    I am Canadian, and yes, the waiting lists are real. My mother flew to another country to get her hepatitis treated, because in Canada, she would have to wait for a few months (since it is a non-life-threatening chronic disease). However, to many people, waiting for twice as long and don't have to pay anything is better than having to go bankrupt.

    In some ways, this is like public and private healthcare co-existing. Rich people can go to another country and get treated immediately, while poor people can just wait, and they will get treated for free eventually. They just never put it this way because in Canada it's supposed to be all about "equality". This unequal system works quite well in practice, though.

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