Google's new caffeine

This is a discussion on Google's new caffeine within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; As you may know Google is making changes to the search engine. Apparently they see the emergence of other search ...

  1. #1
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Google's new caffeine

    As you may know Google is making changes to the search engine. Apparently they see the emergence of other search engines like Microsoft's Bing (which is in fact quite interesting) or real-time search tools in Twitter as possible candidates for google's current search engine dismissal.

    Personally that's not what troubles me. I don't use twitter and Bing just doesn't offer enough yet to justify a switch. But instead, what annoys me about google is the lack of an ability to categorize the search results list or some annoying side-effects of the PageRank, like a almost complete total inability to access the homepage of a simple shareware product that is being offered all around through download websites.

    Anyways, the preview can be accessed here: Google (looks identical and it is identical. It's the engine that has changed).
    An independent test can be seen here: Google Caffeine: A Detailed Test of the New Google

    The test doesn't really bring much out. In fact I'm not even sure of some of the parameters (how useful it really is to go from 50 million to 300 million search results?). The speed increase is from a user standpoint rather useless also and only of importance to google.

    I put it to my own testing. Basically I just wanted to see if my annoyances are addressed.

    1. Categorized search results. Non existing. We still have -- and probably will have for a long time until someone tries another Cuil. But does it right this time -- a shopping list search results that is becoming increasingly passé and hard to handle.

    2. Contextual relevance. Promising! I couldn't think for the life of me of a good example like so many I have encountered in the past. So I went into SnapFiles and started hunting down for a shareware/freeware product that once searched on Google would list a bunch of download sites before showing the product homepage. Sometimes even only on the second or third page. As I don't have much patience for these type of things (I'm no reviewer for pete's sake!) I was happy to find the first thing that showed a difference. "Cartoonist" is some image editing software. I typed "Cartoonist software" in the search box of both engines and on the new google, the homepage for the product came up first, whereas on the old google it came second! As I keep surfing the web I'll keep a lookout for these situations and make sure when I find something more relevant, I'll give it a shot on the new search engine. But this indeed looks promising!
    Last edited by Mario F.; 08-26-2009 at 10:10 AM.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  2. #2
    l'Anziano DavidP's Avatar
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    The speed increase is from a user standpoint rather useless also and only of importance to google.
    Agreed. I figure the speed of my computer being able to render the search results and the speed of my network connection is much more of a bottleneck than Google's ability to complete a search. So I don't see much point in hype about "search engines getting even faster".

    Categorized search results. Non existing.
    Categorized in what way? I've never seen a search engine that categorizes search results.

    I typed "Cartoonist software" in the search box of both engines and on the new google, the homepage for the product came up first, whereas on the old google it came second!
    The homepage for the product (assuming it is Cartoonist - Overview) came up second for me on both the new google and the old google.

    Microsoft's Bing (which is in fact quite interesting)
    What do you find interesting about Bing? It looks like just another search engine to me...I don't see anything it has to offer that I don't already have on Google, but maybe you know more than I do on the subject.
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    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidP View Post
    What do you find interesting about Bing? It looks like just another search engine to me...I don't see anything it has to offer that I don't already have on Google, but maybe you know more than I do on the subject.
    I think he means the image search.
    "The Internet treats censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore

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    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidP View Post
    Categorized in what way? I've never seen a search engine that categorizes search results.
    Precisely.
    But there are. Check Cuil or even Bing. You can further refine your search or search for related topics by using intelligently generated category listings based on your search term on the side bars. Search for instance for John Travolta.

    Cuil does a much better job at generating categories out of search terms. But is not so good at producing results from said categories.


    What do you find interesting about Bing? It looks like just another search engine to me...I don't see anything it has to offer that I don't already have on Google
    Well, that's what I said.
    I find it interesting because while Microsoft always got it wrong, it finally got it right with Bing. It rivals google in performance and results relevancy. At least from where I stand. However, there's really not much that makes it interesting. Sure, there is the quick preview feature which allows you to peek at the website contents before clicking, or a category listing sidebar for many search terms, or even the xRank features. But it's just not enough. To be fair it is all still in beta. So I wouldn't be surprised if Bing may displace Google in the near future. Just not yet.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  5. #5
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    Precisely.
    But there are. Check Cuil or even Bing. You can further refine your search or search for related topics by using intelligently generated category listings based on your search term on the side bars. Search for instance for John Travolta
    Google lets you further refine a search by searching within the results, you need to do advanced search. They leave it off by default because 99.999% of the time you dont need that functionality and displaying it just creates screen clutter as well as eating bandwidth unnecessairly.

    One should learn to use a tool properly before judging its usefulness.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

  6. #6
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abachler View Post
    One should learn to use a tool properly before judging its usefulness.
    Really? How nice of you to say so...
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  7. #7
    not-a-geek
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxorator View Post
    I think he means the image search.
    Anyone tried TinEye for image searching? It doesn't search by name but by content; so if you have a small or low quality version of an image, you can search the web for variations of that image. Looks like it even finds subsections of larger images or photoshopped versions.
    I wonder how long it takes until google comes up with something similar
    main() { int O[!0<<~-!0]; (!0<<!0)[O]+= ~0 +~(!0|!0<<!0); printf("a function calling "); }

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    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyda View Post
    Anyone tried TinEye for image searching? It doesn't search by name but by content; so if you have a small or low quality version of an image, you can search the web for variations of that image.
    Oh sure but I notice it does not support animated gifs!

    Pretty clever tho. I just found all the forums with people that use the "Steal Your Face" logo as their avatar. Very fast, nice and simple -- but alas, the Adult Forest Fairy produced no results :P
    Last edited by MK27; 08-31-2009 at 01:20 PM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

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    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyda View Post
    I wonder how long it takes until google comes up with something similar
    They do already for sometime. The advanced search is possible because of such things as the Google Image Labeler.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  10. #10
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    They do already for sometime. The advanced search is possible because of such things as the Google Image Labeler.
    This is not the same at all. The TinEye allows you to upload an image, eg, this is a 55x55 "Steal Your Face" logo; you upload it, as you would an attachment, and the search results returned are all the matches -- it is not word or label based at all. I suspect the images have to be nearly identical, but it includes much bigger, higher resolution ones. So, for example, if I wanted a 800x800 version of the same image, I might be able to find it there. Also, I think paletted formats like gif will match to RGB formats like jpeg, so you could find higher quality versions with more color, etc.

    Could come in pretty useful at some point, but it is not for finding something based on a description; you have to have the image already to submit. It is very easy to use and as I said the engine is wickedly fast considering they claim to have more than a billion images charted. Take 30 seconds and try it.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by MK27; 08-31-2009 at 04:52 PM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  11. #11
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Oh, I see. Nice indeed!
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  12. #12
    not-a-geek
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    I suspect the images have to be nearly identical, but it includes much bigger, higher resolution ones.
    I haven't seen any false positives yet, but it can find even photoshopped images, or images with text on it, i.e. when used as a book/magazine-cover.

    Look what it came up with for your signature: 27 results - TinEye (TinEye says this link will only work for 72 hours)

    An interesting match from their blog: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2458/...08d50879d7.jpg
    main() { int O[!0<<~-!0]; (!0<<!0)[O]+= ~0 +~(!0|!0<<!0); printf("a function calling "); }

  13. #13
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyda View Post
    Look what it came up with for your signature: 27 results - TinEye
    Yeah, it's pretty well done. (That's Tony Hawk in a loop, and Haley Joel Osment in "AI", respectfully). I went thru those links tho, and a lot of them either no longer exist, or the image is no longer on the page. Dunno how often they update the database; I have it my head from somewhere that it takes google 3 weeks to work it's way thru the web and catalogue a page twice, and they probably don't have those resources. However, since it does deliver the alternate images, I guess the purpose is served, whether or not the source has changed.

    The images must be sorted in some kind of branching order, like a binary tree, since it obviously is not comparing all 1 billion of them. Again: very fast.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

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    Registered User ssharish2005's Avatar
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    TinEye is indeed very good. But it failed on my search. Looks like its still growing.Tried lookin for the following image. Knew its pretty rare to find. But couldn't find and gave up. I guess this is something really very uniqe i've come across so far.
    Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving - Einstein

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    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssharish2005 View Post
    Knew its pretty rare to find. But couldn't find and gave up. I guess this is something really very uniqe i've come across so far.
    I feel I am being teased.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

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