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Objective C section on the forums

This is a discussion on Objective C section on the forums within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; With the increase in iPhone developers, would it not be good to have an Objective-C section on the forum so ...

  1. #1
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    Objective C section on the forums

    With the increase in iPhone developers, would it not be good to have an Objective-C section on the forum so people can discuss Obj-C and Mac related programming questions?

    Just an idea as I work on a Mac, and noticed you had Linux and Windows on there.

  2. #2
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    There is not enough demand for Obj-C or Mac discussion to warrant the extra forums, methinks.
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    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
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    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

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  3. #3
    and the Hat of Guessing tabstop's Avatar
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    The demand bit argument is a little circular; certainly there haven't been hordes beating down the gates looking for it, but people who are looking for it probably show up, see nothing here useful, and then leave.

    The catch (IMHO) is that ObjC is, at best, a red-headed stepchild of C -- the "interesting" questions would come from the Obj part and not the C part, I would expect. Compare the C and C++ forums to, say, the C# forum, which is sitting at about 1/20th the action or so, and realizing that ObjC is even less related to C then C# is, and I would expect even less action there. (To put it another way, most of the "experts" in the C forum are also "experts" in the C++ forum and vice versa, but most of us probably would not be "experts" in the ObjC area. I mean I've dabbled in it a little, but not enough to have any idea what's going on, so that community would have to get built from scratch. And if you have to build it from scratch, is this the right place to do it?)

    All of which is a very long-winded way to say: it wouldn't bother me to have that new forum, but I wouldn't expect to contribute much and I wouldn't expect it to be very useful (although I'm willing to be proved wrong).

  4. #4
    Disrupting the universe Mad_guy's Avatar
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    and realizing that ObjC is even less related to C then C# is
    I am not sure where you got that idea from.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabstop View Post
    The demand bit argument is a little circular; certainly there haven't been hordes beating down the gates looking for it, but people who are looking for it probably show up, see nothing here useful, .............
    Good point.

    When I was developing iPhone apps, I could never find an active community. And sometimes I'd need to ask questions relating to C and C++ as some of the Cocoa libraries are not Objective-C. I think it'd be good to have an Obj-C community on here.

  6. #6
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesjeffery View Post
    would it not be good to have an Objective-C section on the forum
    What, isn't it already objective enough?

    I notice there is already at least one fairly busy objective C oriented forum:

    Mac Programming - Mac Forums

    which there is an iphone programming forum there too.

    Diversity and competition are great -- it's nice to be able to choose somewhere else if you don't like where you are at. On the other hand, there is not really much to be gained from "diffusing the crowd" too much. There are other sites with C and C++ programming forums, but I have never seen one with the volume (and, of course, quality) of activity as here.

    Adding another objective-C forum to the net might just detract from the ones that already exist. Plus, as everyone know, Mac users can be an unruly bunch.
    Last edited by MK27; 08-15-2009 at 01:05 PM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

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    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    What, isn't it already objective enough?

    I notice there is already at least one fairly busy objective C oriented forum:

    Mac Programming - Mac Forums

    which there is an iphone programming forum there too.

    Diversity and competition are great -- it's nice to be able to choose somewhere else if you don't like where you are at. On the other hand, there is not really much to be gained from "diffusing the crowd" too much. There are other sites with C and C++ programming forums, but I have never seen one with the volume (and, of course, quality) of activity as here.

    Adding another objective-C forum to the net might just detract from the ones that already exist.
    Or at least a forum on Mac programming?

    At least that way, anything related to Mac, such as Carbon, Cocoa, Objective-C, Appkit etc can all be discussed under one forum.

  8. #8
    and the Hat of Guessing tabstop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_guy View Post
    I am not sure where you got that idea from.
    Probably from using them both a little bit, I would imagine.

    And if it's not clear, I mean that the "hard stuff" that I would expect to consistently find on the forums -- I believe that a standard C program works as ObjC, while it doesn't in C# of course; but if you pick a line of C# at random you might believe it comes from a C program, while something like
    Code:
    [myCircle setOriginX:5.0 setOriginY:10.0 setRadius:3.5]
    obviously doesn't.

  9. #9
    Disrupting the universe Mad_guy's Avatar
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    Probably from using them both a little bit, I would imagine.
    I am merely commenting on the fact that in terms of being syntactically and semantically related, Objective-C is much closer to C than C# is, considering that Objective-C is a superset of ANSI C, and hence, all valid C programs are valid Objective-C programs. Their direct relation to one another is quite a bit more obvious - in fact it is quite possible to argue their *direct lineage* where you could not do the same with e.g. C and C#.

    but if you pick a line of C# at random you might believe it comes from a C program
    You mean like this?

    Code:
    int z = 20;
    Func<int,int,int> f1 = (x, y) => x + y + z;
    I don't believe any reasonable C programmer is going to think that is C.

    Regardless your 'pick a line' at random metric is totally unfair and meaningless because you just 'randomly' decided to put up one particular example of objective-C syntax that does *not* appear in C (namely, sending messages to objects) the same way I have done with C# with anonymous lambdas - so your point is moot in any case.
    Last edited by Mad_guy; 08-15-2009 at 01:26 PM.
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  10. #10
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Maybe we could make this thread the Objective-C forum.


    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  11. #11
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    We don't need any new forums.

  12. #12
    Banned ಠ_ಠ's Avatar
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    Except for that one that no one wants to talk about
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ಠ_ಠ View Post
    Except for that one that no one wants to talk about
    Guys there is no need to be negative about the issue.

    It was an idea. When you're in the morning meeting and ideas are being thrown around, however silly they may sound to you, you don't mock the idea. There is no reason to believe people wouldn't use a Mac programming forum.

    A Mac Programming forum, where people can discuss all Mac related C, C++ and Objective-C would be a great idea. I see Windows, and Linux, but no Mac.
    caroundw5h likes this.

  14. #14
    Banned ಠ_ಠ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesjeffery View Post
    It was an idea. When you're in the morning meeting and ideas are being thrown around, however silly they may sound to you, you don't mock the idea.
    what makes you say that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ಠ_ಠ View Post
    what makes you say that?
    Because you're mocking an idea without understanding. Just because not many Mac developers don't talk on here, does not mean they are a minority. As someone already said, Mac developers might come here, but be put off because of no place to talk about Mac related C/C++/Obj-C programming. I don't know about you, but before I ask a question on a forum I make sure there is a high possibility people will answer it.

    If you declined an idea in a meeting without any prior knowledge or understanding, and because you generally don't like the idea for no particular reason, you'd look a little silly.

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