View Poll Results: Several thousand hackers camped in holland for 3 days sounds to me like

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  • a dream come true

    3 27.27%
  • a complete nightmare

    1 9.09%
  • mostly fun

    4 36.36%
  • totally uninteresting

    2 18.18%
  • somewhere to promo my latest soldering iron project

    3 27.27%
  • a good place for the revolution to begin

    4 36.36%
  • unbelievably "geeky"

    4 36.36%
  • should probably be illegal

    3 27.27%
Multiple Choice Poll.

Hacking at Random 2009

This is a discussion on Hacking at Random 2009 within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally Posted by Mario F. What do you mean? That the term cracker never existed? As a white person, I'm ...

  1. #16
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    What do you mean? That the term cracker never existed?
    As a white person, I'm offended (in the US "cracker" is also derogatory slang for the pale folk). But notice:

    "h" != "cr"

    Re RMS: I have heard that he likes to carry his pet Persian cat around and prefers to be addressed as "Mr. Goldfinger", but that still does not make him a liar.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  2. #17
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    It's all fine and dandy MK. But problem is media made h = cr. And your friends there got on that ride. So Thantos insight makes all sense in fact. Unless of course you don't associate HAR 2009 as Yet Another I Crack Websites and Software For Fun convention.

    You see today's news and any system security breach with malicious intent or any report on software piracy as being the works of Hackers. Most groups name themselves hackers since they actually don't have a clue. I may have done it for fun, I may have hurt no one but my phone company, but there let be no doubt in my mind that when I was tampering with mine and my friends home phone to make free calls back in the 80s, I was a cracker.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  3. #18
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    IUnless of course you don't associate HAR 2009 as Yet Another I Crack Websites and Software For Fun convention.
    They are probably running around doing "night fight" commando training right now

    I did hear one of the organizers interviewed, and it sounded like the planned events ranged from "complex stuff" on encryption to things like "what the linux kernel is for", so I would guess the range of talent is that broad. People who are learning to develop their own websites probably do not want to (knowingly) party with people hell-bent on destroying the internet.

    Playing Devil's Advocate, I guess it could be like some cabal of evil witches luring in more victims to suck the marrow from, which helps to explain the notorious butterfly motif on the website.

    IMO tho, there are many things that fall under the hacker umbrella that are much more "fun and interesting" than planning your first DoD attack.

    As Stallman's reference to John Cage implies, "hacking" as art form might cover avant-garde programming, that is, things not intended to duplicate existing systems/policies for commercial purposes but instead to exploit generally unseen, unheard, unthought possibilities. "Unbelievably geeky", no doubt, but stuff like that still turns me on Cage's stuff with notes in it is pretty great -- he coined the term prepared piano, for example, and brought that possibility into the light. Most people alive today have probably heard and enjoyed prepared piano music without knowing it. In fact, the existence of conventions like this, etc, might make Dadaism, an older European cultural movement, part of the heritage.

    "Dada" is still a very contentious word to define and also vilified/exalted on the basis of that ambiguity.
    Last edited by MK27; 08-12-2009 at 10:15 PM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  4. #19
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    I don't get all the debate about the term hacker here. As far as I'm concerned, the original word had the meaning of people having a drive to learn and be inventive. Crackers certainly need to have that skill (not considering script kiddies or the like).
    And let me tell you, the people who go to those conferences; many of them have the drive to learn (that's exactly why they're there) and they generally are inventive. I've actually been to What The Hack a few years ago, and it was fairly interesting. And I didn't crack anything. I learned. I had fun.

    So to me, whichever definition you pick for the word "hacker", it fits very well to these conferences. Unless the definition includes the world "illegal"; not all of them are illegal.

    It's too bad I didn't know about this conference before, I might've gone there.

  5. #20
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thantos View Post
    Obviously they aren't that old of a group or they wouldn't be using the word hacker in that regard.
    Actually you are wrong, 2600 has been around since the bbs days. They use the word hacker in its original context, which was not the negative connotation it has today. However, it long ago ceased to be a focus of serious hackers, and is now just a bunch of burnouts, wannabe's, and govt sting operatives. Serious hacker's don't advertise, they don't gather in large groups, and they certainly don't have radio shows.
    Last edited by abachler; 08-13-2009 at 04:42 AM.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

  6. #21
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Very well, I may have had the wrong impression on this group. Wouldn't know until I actually visited their little tea party and saw for myself what they do with their time.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  7. #22
    Registered User Homer_Simpson's Avatar
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    I'm there right now! I still haven't been to sleep -- I've been asked to speak at a workshop on nuclear technology!

    This is even better than the episode where I became an astronaut and got to fly the shuttle. Almost. WHAAAHOOO!

  8. #23
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homer_Simpson View Post
    I'm there right now! I still haven't been to sleep -- I've been asked to speak at a workshop on nuclear technology!
    Ah, the pleasure of misplaced irony!
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

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