Windows 7 Released to Manufacturing

This is a discussion on Windows 7 Released to Manufacturing within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally Posted by Elysia Want/need sound exactly the same to me. I WANT you to locate an english dictionary and ...

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Want/need sound exactly the same to me.
    I WANT you to locate an english dictionary and look up the words "need" and "want". I do not NEED you to locate a dictionary and look up the words "need" and "want". I WANT chocolate-covered ice cream with sprinkles. I do not NEED chocolate-covered ice cream with sprinkles. I do not WANT to use stdout to print to the screen in standard C. I NEED to use stdout print to the screen in standard C. Etcetera.

  2. #47
    {Jaxom,Imriel,Liam}'s Dad Kennedy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    No, I get a little annoyed when people announce "eh, XP works fine, who needs Win7"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    I don't care one way or another if anyone upgrades or not, though. That's Microsoft's battle.
    Do these two seem contradictory to anyone other than myself?

    Sounds like either someone has stock in MS or "needs" to get some.

  3. #48
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiteflags View Post
    They wanted a good 64-bit OS. Vista wasn't perceived as such by the market. A little spitshine and lo an behold, it's a brand new day.
    Indeed. Vista SP3 with a new theme.

    But to be perfectly honest there's a couple of things that will eventually make me turn XP obsolete on my machine:

    DirectX 11: DirectX 10 did suffer somewhat from Microsoft's decision to not provide it for XP. Game vendors ignored it at large. But I don't expect them to sustain this for much longer. DirectX 11 will already mean a 2 version leap from XP's DirectX 9. So It's very feasable to expect game developers to start doing some serious work with it. I'm positive they are hoping for a wide Windows 7 adoption. That being the case, sticking to XP may become a problem for gamers.

    SSD: Improvements to SSD support are small but very significant over Vista. These disks will almost certainly become mainstream pretty soon. Certainly hard drives will stay for a very long time, but I cannot deny the performance improvements of SSDs when taking into consideration that their prices still can, and will, drop considerably.

    Of all the remaining features, they aren't either that useful for me (GUI crap), I prefer their third-party software equivalents (Virtual HD) or have yet to meet an application where or a usage pattern in which they become relevant (concurrency improvements)
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  4. #49
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    This might be a monthly thing. We've entered an endless recursion of time.

  5. #50
    Unregistered User Yarin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Microsoft has always been good at GUI, have they not?
    Actually, I was rather impressed with KDE Oxygen, I thought it much better than Windows' Classic, Luna, or Aero theme. But hey, beauty's in the eye of the beholder, eh?

    On topic: I am actually looking forward to trying out Win 7. Unfortunately, I know it has an ugly GUI, and I really doubt 7 affords the user more control, rather, probably the other way around, and it's still Windows, which means viruses and such. But I've heard that it has some new bells and whistles - one of the attractions of Linux. However, it's still Microsoft, which means tons of money, and some stupid registration that limits me to one computer per purchase. So, I would like to see it, yes, but I can wait until a friend gets it, and even then a miracle would have to happen to get me to actually buy it.
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  6. #51
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Because you are passing judgment on the OS.
    now that's gotta be an old testament sin

    does windows still just have just the single workspace?

    MS does a really nice job with the bevelling of the window widgets. I think the only thing they do wrong is charge too much. They could be like the volkswagen of the OS world, except you get charged for a BMW. I bet if they charged half as much, they could sell twice as many copies to people who will otherwise stick with their old copy of XP or whatever. Which amounts to the same thing financially*, but might earn them more respect amongst users, who otherwise will probably wait until they buy their next computer to upgrade the OS -- so they don't care and aren't interested that there's a windows 7. If it were $110, way more people might think, oh, windows, maybe I should buy the new one. If it were $110, I might even have bought a copy. Instead, I will send another contribution to GNU

    * well, except they will have to provide some form of support to twice as many people.
    Last edited by MK27; 07-29-2009 at 06:55 PM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Windows has received its first new major UI makeover since Windows 95.
    Yes it did, a long time ago, then they did it again, and again... Every version of Windows has a completely new UI. They keep shuffling all the menus around just to make it that much harder for me to find something in the Start Menu or Control Panel...
    The first thing I do when I get a new version of Windows is right-click the taskbar and select "Classic Start Menu".
    "I am probably the laziest programmer on the planet, a fact with which anyone who has ever seen my code will agree." - esbo, 11/15/2008

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  8. #53
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Here's a frightening XP oversight I just heard about:

    Free Public WiFi SSID at WLAN Book.com

    I mean, it is kind of user ignorance to automatically believe that an SSID called Free Public WiFi is really free public wifi, when it could be anything, but a funny story about the consequences of bad design anyway. I wonder if they can come up with anything that good for version 7?
    Last edited by MK27; 07-29-2009 at 07:33 PM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  9. #54
    int x = *((int *) NULL); Cactus_Hugger's Avatar
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    Microsoft has always been good at GUI, have they not?
    You're kidding... right?
    • I can have 3 scrollbars/comboboxes/buttons/your-favourite-control-here on my screen that all look and act differently, but they're all in MS apps
    • start menu that forgets windows that are visible (there are visible windows not on the start menu -- clicking on the window, and the start menu 'remembers')
    • Windows don't actually know if they're maximized or not -- I can have a window, not maximize, but the buttons and the window border indicate it is. (I can move it around the screen, it's size != the screens size, etc.)
    • MS uses their own applications as examples of bad design in their (lacking) UX standards. (For a real treat, read the Gnome or the Apple HIGs.)
    • There is no real standard font -- windows seem to pick and choose for themselves. Setting the font to something different is particularly hazardous. (.Net is bad for this...)
    • I haven't noticed this since XP, but GUI stuff starts to fail at high window counts, but RAM is not exhausted. (This is defective-by-design, and a registry hack can increase the number of windows.) Depending on the number of GUI elements in the particular set of apps you run, the perceived number of windows can be quite low. Things fail in interesting ways when the limit is hit. (Who actually checks those return values anyways?)
    long time; /* know C? */
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  10. #55
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cactus_Hugger View Post
    I can have 3 scrollbars/comboboxes/buttons/your-favourite-control-here on my screen that all look and act differently, but they're all in MS apps
    hmm... I'm not sure UI elements consistency across applications is a desirable trait. I can certainly see the advantages. But there's functionality that makes sense to provide on a certain application and not on another. Considering the common ground could only be an UI element with minimum functionality, I'd rather see what you see.

    If Microsoft always makes the right choice considering what functionality to provide a certain UI element, that's another matter.

    MS uses their own applications as examples of bad design in their (lacking) UX standards.
    The one that annoys me the most: non resizable windows with grid elements within.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  11. #56
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    I have a guarantee of continued support for XP embedded for at least another 5 years.
    I, too, heard this same guarantee. There is a middle ground called Windows Standard embedded which is not 100% Vista but not 100% W7 either but moving to it seems high risk to me.

    However what I do not have is guaranteed continued support for DirectX 9.0c. I suspect that as W7 becomes standard that DX9 will be dropped and DX10 and DX11 will be supported. That is assuming that DX11 will be ready soon. Because of this I see major changes ahead since I'm still in the process of porting DX8 code lines to DX9. Just about the time I get those ported DX9 will probably be deprecated. Yay me.

    Microsoft has always been good at GUI, have they not?
    Is that why they replaced the good old fashioned menu with the ribbon bar? Definitely a step backwards in user interface.
    Last edited by VirtualAce; 07-29-2009 at 11:52 PM.

  12. #57
    C++ Witch laserlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia
    Want/need sound exactly the same to me.
    You must be watching too many advertisements. They aim to turn your wants into needs

    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia
    Hey, my Turbo C compiler works just fine, why should I upgrade?
    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia
    Hey, Visual C++ 6 works just fine, why upgrade? It costs a lot of money for nothing!
    It may be better not to upgrade if those compilers were still supported by the vendors and if you do not need to cater to other compilers in the near future. On the other hand, you need to consider the fact that new hires may be trained in standard C++, hence there would be a cost in getting them up to scratch concerning the non-standard aspects of these compilers so that they can correctly maintain the software.
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  13. #58
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laserlight View Post
    I would perform a cost-benefit analysis first. It may well be the case that the cost of switching outweights the benefits from switching, if any.
    It costs nothing to continue using XP until the point where I need to use XP-64, which I also already own.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

  14. #59
    l'Anziano DavidP's Avatar
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    XP works great. Nonetheless, my computer is nearing the end of its lifetime. The computer itself still works great, but as it is nearing the end of its 3 year warranty I figure I will purchase a new computer near the end of this year, and install Windows 7 on that new computer. If I like it, I will keep it, otherwise I will remove it and install one of my already-owned copies of XP.

    Meanwhile, I will take my current XP machine and install some Linux distro (most likely Ubuntu), and have fun!
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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cactus_Hugger View Post
    [*]start menu that forgets windows that are visible (there are visible windows not on the start menu -- clicking on the window, and the start menu 'remembers')
    I have no idea what this means?
    I've never seen any problems with my Start Menu.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidP View Post
    XP works great. Nonetheless, my computer is nearing the end of its lifetime. The computer itself still works great, but as it is nearing the end of its 3 year warranty I figure I will purchase a new computer near the end of this year, and install Windows 7 on that new computer.
    Why would you get a new computer just because your warranty is running out? If it works, it works. If something breaks, you should be able to fix it yourself.
    "I am probably the laziest programmer on the planet, a fact with which anyone who has ever seen my code will agree." - esbo, 11/15/2008

    "the internet is a scary place to be thats why i dont use it much." - billet, 03/17/2010

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