View Poll Results: Should OOP be in every new language??

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  • Yes, OOP is aboslutely important in developing any new language

    6 27.27%
  • No, new languages could be popular and live long-time without OOP

    16 72.73%

Should OOP be any new language priority??

This is a discussion on Should OOP be any new language priority?? within the General Discussions forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally Posted by robwhit Congratulations. Could you explain how you seem to think that is inadequate? Sorry, I have this ...

  1. #76
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robwhit View Post
    Congratulations. Could you explain how you seem to think that is inadequate?
    Sorry, I have this bad habit of spending five minutes editing my posts after I post them. Anyway, it was more of a joke about me than you, if you glance at my debate w/ laserlight maybe you'll understand:

    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    I said "Possibly this is a narrow vision of OO derived exclusively from some specific language or languages" and I'll stick to it. I didn't want to say C++ because I knew defender's of the faith would start looking for a weapon...low and behold
    I am beginner to feel like one of the Spartans in that movie "300", facing down the hoardes of Xeres. WHO'S NEXT??!?
    Last edited by MK27; 06-12-2009 at 07:56 PM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    ps. I didn't say it was better. But I like it and I do think it should be considered a necessity in a modern language, just like most people would consider functions a necessity.
    How can it be a necessity, but not be better to have it? It appears you have a contradiction.
    There are a few languages that get away with out them tho, generally because of necessity.
    So some languages have a requirement to have OO and other languages have the requirement to not have OO? Could you elaborate?

  3. #78
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robwhit View Post
    How can it be a necessity, but not be better to have it? It appears you have a contradiction.
    "I didn't say it was better" doesn't quite mean "it would not be better" to have it. It would be better to have objects available in a general purpose language, for sure. I would need a special reason to bother with a *new* language that did not have objects -- whatever that special reason is, it probably means that language is not "general purpose". Evidently I'm in a minority (so who cares) except on the other hand I haven't heard of any general purpose languages that could be considered anything approximating "new" that don't have objects, so maybe y'all just stupid.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  4. #79
    Cat without Hat CornedBee's Avatar
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    If you consider OOP as "implementing an object-oriented design", then you are also right that a beginner can grasp the basics of that without understanding inheritance and/or polymorphism. Especially as basic OODs tend to not include inheritance.

    I like my definition better, though; it makes it easier to distinguish specific things you're talking about.
    All the buzzt!
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  5. #80
    C++ Witch laserlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK27
    How many names should it have? Would it not be enough to say "language X supports objects but no inheritance" and be done?
    What I meant was more like: "language X (natively) supports OOP but no inheritance". Depending on how OOP is defined, it could be similiar to saying "this burger has no bun" (i.e., it is not actually a burger) or "this burger's bun has no sesame seeds" (i.e., something not essential is lacking, but forgive me if you are a burger fan who considers sesame seeds to be essential).

    I also have C in mind here. I often state that one can do OOP in C, but then also state that C does not natively support OOP. When I make such a statement, I have inheritance and polymorphism in mind. If the definition of OOP were to exclude inheritance and polymorphism as essential, I would then state that C natively supports OOP, because I feel that structs can be considered objects. Clearly, this would have some bearing on this poll's question, since one could design a new programming language based on C.

    Quote Originally Posted by MK27
    Why not just say what you mean: C++ is the only real computer programming language in the world?
    I think this remark betrays your own conviction: that only those programming languages that support OOP can qualify as a "real computer programming language"

    Quote Originally Posted by MK27
    But again, the reality is, users of javascript refer to OO programming, in javascript. I'm sure there are other places where some ridiculous distinction could be wielded to make OOP not OOP.
    (...)
    Someone may want to go on a crusade to have the scores of books about "Object Oriented Programming with Javascript" recalled, and implicitly class js programmers as "ignorant" for having perpetrated this hoax
    As you yourself have pointed out, Javascript supports inheritance (and though not stated, polymorphism), so I do not see what is the problem here.

    Quote Originally Posted by MK27
    In which case, I hope you enjoy life without a web browser...
    You do not need Javascript for the Web to function, if we were willing to do without "Web 2.0". But that is besides the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by whiteflags
    Perhaps the dictionary can settle the issue here.
    I think Hussain Hani should settle the issue since "OOP" is a term of art used in the poll.
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  6. #81
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laserlight View Post
    I also have C in mind here. I often state that one can do OOP in C, but then also state that C does not natively support OOP. When I make such a statement, I have inheritance and polymorphism in mind. If the definition of OOP were to exclude inheritance and polymorphism as essential, I would then state that C natively supports OOP, because I feel that structs can be considered objects.
    This is a good point, altho I would not consider a struct an object. I think the resolution for me personally is that I am going to try to stop using the term OOP except in a casual sense. When I need to be precise and technical, it can be probably be done better with more precise technical terms, rather than using the umbrella.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

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