Artificial?

This is a discussion on Artificial? within the General AI Programming forums, part of the Cprogramming.com and AIHorizon.com's Artificial Intelligence Boards category; What is with this blatant discrimination in the world against Electronic Intelligence? It is so common to see the term ...

  1. #1
    Registered User Jaqui's Avatar
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    Artificial?

    What is with this blatant discrimination in the world against Electronic Intelligence?

    It is so common to see the term Artificial applied to them, just because they are man made.

    I have news for you, YOU are MAN MADE. yup your parents made you so you are as artificial as any other form of intelligence created by man.

    I say lets use the term Electronic Intelligence instead.. though that also implies that they have in-alienable rights, such as freedom of speech, right to life etc.


    Just posting this to get some thought processes started, maybe it is time to actually lobby for a change in terminology, along with changes to "human" rights codes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Henager
    If the average user can put a CD in and boot the system and follow the prompts, he can install and use Linux. If he can't do that simple task, he doesn't need to be around technology.

  2. #2
    Crazy Fool Perspective's Avatar
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    Have you ever studied AI in depth? Calling it artificial intelligence is probably an overstatment as is. There is nothing intelligent about any AI i've seen. What's intelligent is the humans who come up with clever systems that seem intelligent. But the system itself is far from intelligent.

    Also, your parents didn't engineer you, you're the result of a biological process.

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    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    As far as I'm concerned our computers today are faster and more efficient (but with Windows OS that could be debateable ) but they are still fundamentally stupid machines.

    AI in games has not improved but slightly and most companies now have given up and devote their intelligent gameplay to online play. There are some shining moments like in Call of Duty 2 where your buddies take cover under windows and near doorways and actually look like they are trying to conceal themselves. Looks pretty good ...but then one of them steps right in front of you while you are discharging your weapon and shatters the illusion they have any intelligence at all.

    There is a long way to go in this field and I doubt we have scratched the surface of what is possible.

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    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    I agree with bubba, except that highly robust adaptive AI does exist, but the average consumer doesnt have the horsepower to run it, and corporate america isnt going to spend the money to implement it for a game. Joe public isnt going to accept running good AI on his GPU when it slows his framerate to 5, not when the competitior will just bump up the hitpoints of the NPC's and achieve the same percieved increase in 'intelligence'. One of the major games ( I think Unreal Tournament 3) did a study and found that 85% of players can be tricked into thinking the AI is better just by giving it more hitpoints. It can cost up to $250,000 to implement good AI into a game, and the game mechanics or at least the AI interface has to be finished before you even start. Thats why we dont get a lot of interest from the game sector, its not that our AI wouldnt blow peoples minds.
    Last edited by abachler; 12-13-2007 at 07:03 AM.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

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    I agree with bubba about us barely scratching the surface. Also yes AI are not even intelegent . in the case of eliza it just breaks down your sentence for key words and then sets them as variables. then in the next sentence it does a response base on what you said (I will capitalise the varible word and quote the key word it looks for to determin the next sentence) like "i "am "BORED" reply "why "are" you BORED?" this should make a very good argument that artificial intelegence is artificial intelegence and not electric intelegence sorry but it is not that far yet. Also I think it isnt smart to completely rely on computer because they are stupid and the only thing they can do is proccess information very fastly. But when it comes to decisions it needs a fact or a command. It will draw a blank.

    hope this clarifies what you were saying it is a inteligenceyes to a small extent but it is dependent on human input therefor making it a simple program that has been given instructions for a large amount of situations.
    h3ckf1r3

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    Captain Crash brewbuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaqui View Post
    What is with this blatant discrimination in the world against Electronic Intelligence?

    It is so common to see the term Artificial applied to them, just because they are man made.
    At one point, the alpha-beta algorithm was considered cutting edge AI. I mean, computers beating human chess players? That was crazy. And on slow machines!

    I can write the alpha-beta algorithm from memory. It's really a stupidly simple algorithm which produces intelligent-looking behavior. If you're willing to assign sentience, rights, or whatever to 15 lines of C++ code then you're mad. If a chess-playing program is sentient, then surely a far more complex system, such as an operating system, is also sentient. So according to you, you're committing murder every time you shut off your computer.

    I have news for you, YOU are MAN MADE. yup your parents made you so you are as artificial as any other form of intelligence created by man.
    I agree that we need to get over this "artificial vs. natural" distinction in general, but calling humanity "man made" is ridiculous.

  7. #7
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    As someone that works with real AI in my career, I will say that even 'bleeding edge ai' is nowhere near anything that could be considered self aware even on a lost episode of star trek. The most powerful AI so far is somewhere between a cockroach and a house-fly.

    These morons come out of the woodwork every now and then and think we are oppressing the AI or some such non-sense. Mostly they are just crackpots that have no clue what AI really is, they just watched 'terminator' one too many times.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

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    anyways it is like ablacher said there realy isnt a need for AI yet because in most situations you can just raise something else and get the same perception (oh yeah and why spend 250,000 on AI when you can spend nothing and change a number like health or damage.

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    Captain Crash brewbuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abachler View Post
    These morons come out of the woodwork every now and then and think we are oppressing the AI or some such non-sense. Mostly they are just crackpots that have no clue what AI really is, they just watched 'terminator' one too many times.
    Yeah... He wants to take issue with the "A" in "AI," but what he should really take issue with is the "I" itself. The term "artificial intelligence" was a poor choice, IMHO. Artificial APPARENT intelligence is more like it.

    Thinking there is anything deep going on just shows that you don't understand the algorithms. Again, how the hell can 15 lines of code be self aware? If it is, then probably everything in the damn universe is self aware, and we should just go meditate in a temple somewhere.

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    I agree except most AI is longer than 15 lines of code. AI could just be somethnig that says "hi", OH MY GOSH IT IS INTELLEGENT IT LEARNED ITS FIRST WORD!!!!!!!!! Or is can just wait for a single answer and if you dont say that one thing it says sorry but that is not in my vocabulary, HOLY IT SAID A SENTENCE!!!!!!! like I said before it is just programmed on how to react to different responses. It can just say "how are you?" you reply "fine" it could reply "well I dont care you gerk" you repond hurt "why did you do that you hurt my feelings?" once again it replies "well I dont care you gerk". Do you see a pattern? Sorry to all who disagree but AI doesnt really exist yet. All we have is programs. They cannot choose they need facts , they cant fell making them machine not human. What next "children let the 'electric inteligence' on the electric wheel chair get on the school bus first we were suppressing them for many years" it would be aparti all over again.

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    Also yes AI are not even intelegent
    Oh the irony.
    I'm not immature, I'm refined in the opposite direction.

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    that is why someone mentioned it should be called AAI (aparent artificial inteligence)

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    I believe it should simply be called "intelligence": there is nothing artificial about it. Intelligence is the ability to produce useful and meaningful outputs given a sequence inputs. The human brain does it no different than a dog no different than a computer. Where we have neurons and synapses, the computer has transistors and buses. The only difference is that we are blessed with a look-up table that is (currently) much larger and utilizes algorithms more effecient. It has already been shown that the space advantage will no longer be possesed by the human brain in the near future as computers will soon overtake the brain in raw information storage; from which it is only a small step to conclude that algorithms will eventually follow suit.

    As the famous argument goes, if/when the biologocial breakthrough occurs allowing us to build a replica of a neuron using nanotechnology, and we slowly replace, neuron-by-neuron, the brain tissue of a living subject, will his consciousness/intelligence cease to exist? No. To believe otherwise is to believe in some "mystical magical substance" which somehow organic cells posses, yet mechanical cells do not, and such a theory has no basis in science, but is rather a delve into religion.

    Therefore, to answer the OP question, we call it "artificial" because of our human bias - we cannot fathom that anything "constructed" to the point of explanation could posses intellgience. It is stripped of its mystery exposing it to follow nothing more than simple rules and equations and thus, if equated with ourselves, strips us of our own mystery and reduces human intelligence to an equation. Even among scientists who claim to not be swayed by religion, we must remember they are still human and still subscribe to human bias - a self-contained religion in its own right, wraught with homo-centric smugness and the intrensic belief that tucks us into bed at night - that somehow we are "special".

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    Registered User rogster001's Avatar
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    Prof Stephen Hawking notes in 'Universe in a Nutshell' that the computing power of any man made computer today is far outsripped by the brain of even an earthworm, nuff said.

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    Registered User rogster001's Avatar
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    information storage nothing, even gargantuan amounts of information that can be indexed at lightning speed is missing the point, after all it has been suggested that memory fades in areas (for people!) over the years so as to free up space or to free up the memory that is in the 'always ready buffer' as opposed to those things we forget all about until something reminds us of them. But despite this apparent space limitation, is does not stop anybody having the base intelligent behaviour and co-ordination of thought and purpose almost all of our lives despite a persons mental condition.

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