Game creation starter.

This is a discussion on Game creation starter. within the Game Programming forums, part of the General Programming Boards category; Hey, I've been looking for QUITE a while on google and such, but nothing really explains 3d game creating. I've ...

  1. #1
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    Game creation starter.

    Hey, I've been looking for QUITE a while on google and such, but nothing really explains 3d game creating. I've been modeling like crazy and I have a level with characters ready, but all the tutorials I found are those "Hello worlds." Now I would think I past that.

    So I would like to know how to get started. What complier, header, and other tools are the best (free or cheap) for creating high-res 3d FPS/3rd person adventure game?


    P.S. not those weird games that have a foot long tecture stretched out.I mean high quality (like those early builds of halo when it was for mac) and interactive stuff like weapons and vehicles.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    No, you are not past 'Hello world' as far as 3D programming is concerned.

    Do you know how to?
    • Initialize Direct3D based on correct enumeration of devices
    • Setup a correct perspective projection matrix
    • Setup a usable 3D camera class
    • Setup a sound engine (DirectMusic)
    • Setup an input engine (DirectInput)
    • Setup a memory management scheme for correct use of COM objects/resources
    • Understand what COM is, does, and how to properly use it
    • Understand key 3D game programming concepts like matrices, vectors, normals, dot product lighting, 3D rotations, quaternions, translations, transformations, scaling, and order of operations as it relates to matrices, etc., etc.
    • Understand how to setup your main function and message loop pump
    • Understand how to use Direct3D's state machine architecture to accomplish what you want to do
    • Understand how to create complex C++ classes that encapsulate key Direct3D functions and operations
    • Understand how to use the D3DX library that MS has put together
    • Understand how to use D3DXMesh interface for your meshes


    This list is by no means exhaustive.

    A game is far more than anything in that list as well - those are some of the basics. You must learn to crawl before you can learn to walk, and walk before you can learn to run.

    If you must, skip the intro learning sessions....but you will regret it later. Buy a book, do the simple stuff and alter your code as your skills improve.

    Most books will get you up and running quite quickly.

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    hmmm, im the same position as him. I would like to learn how to start making games myself and i know how to make that "hello world" program. im still learning the basics on this site, im on the Classes tutorials, but will the tutorials on here show me things i will use in game coding? i mean i know ill use some but will i apply most if not all the stuff im learning in these tutorials on this site to game programming? Ive been trying to learn OpenGL and stuff liek that but i have no clue about that stuff ive been trying to read up on them but they seem a bit too complicated for my level yet, so ive been reading the basic tutorials on here again but i just want to know if i should be reading up on something else or keep learning these? thanx

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    S Sang-drax's Avatar
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    It's not easy to create a 3D game. In fact, I've only seen one 3D game posted here on the game development board. Many begin, but few actually finish anything.
    You should really consider making somthing simpler to begin with.
    Last edited by Sang-drax : Tomorrow at 02:21 AM. Reason: Time travelling

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    Wait, do you guys want to program games, or just make them? Other than the mention of a compiler and the hello world program there's no indication that you necessarily want to *program* games, that you just want to make them.

    I suggest looking online for pre-made game engines, or fairly inexpensive ones, and learn how to use those to generate computer games.


    Sang, who posted the 3d game?
    See you in 13

  6. #6
    S Sang-drax's Avatar
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    Sang, who posted the 3d game?
    Magos
    SkyRoads 2004
    Last edited by Sang-drax : Tomorrow at 02:21 AM. Reason: Time travelling

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkness
    Wait, do you guys want to program games, or just make them? Other than the mention of a compiler and the hello world program there's no indication that you necessarily want to *program* games, that you just want to make them.

    I suggest looking online for pre-made game engines, or fairly inexpensive ones, and learn how to use those to generate computer games.


    Sang, who posted the 3d game?

    hmm well ok i see wat your saying, idk bout him but id like to program a game, well actually program and fully make a game on my own. Ive come across the OpenGL tutorials on this site so im gonna be learning that for now.

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    Well, that's certainly a good way to start. Just realize it's hard, but if you're willing to pur the work in you can do it.

    edit:
    I also think it's a good idea that you are starting with OpenGL. It tends to be easier to learn and use. I'm not a big time graphics programmer, but I know standard OpenGL pretty much inside and out and how to use it.

    edit1:
    This is pretty old (98) but the information is still pertinent, and I think it's actually a good presentation and would make a good sticky.

    http://www.cgl.uwaterloo.ca/~vtluu/T...nGL/intro.html

    It scrolls through sort of like a power point presentation. The arrows are sometimes hard to see and are either on the top of the page or the bottom (gets kind of confusing). I suggest you skim through the site and get familiar with the basic stuff in it, but realize you aren't going to understand most of this stuff for a while, which is okay. Once you've skimmed through that a bunch of times, start asking some intelligent questions.
    Last edited by Darkness; 01-27-2005 at 09:35 AM.
    See you in 13

  9. #9
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    3D games are very hard to make. Mine is currently on hold due to the lack of a good modelling program. They are really expensive.

    But you could make some simple tile-based games in Direct3D using textured quads. 2D is much easier and doing 2D in Direct3D is cake.

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    Bubba: GMax and Blender aren't great, but both are very free.

    Anyway.

    See, even if you learn how to program 3D things, you have to also learn how to use a modelling program. Then you have to get GOOD at using a modelling program.

    Furthermore, 3D is probably the least abstract form of game graphics. The more abstract and simple you can get the visuals (Assuming they're still visuals at that point) the more complex you're allowed to get without fretting about whether or not you're going to have clipping issues, texture aberrations, and general looking weirdness.

    Of course, I haven't really programmed in 3D, but this is generally the vibe I'm getting from a lot of roguelike developers.

    Actually, it's not even really a matter of it being 3D. It's just a matter of abstractedness.

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    OK, i know that it is a hard step to take. But I have NEVER stopped anything that I started. I had this project that I was working with a partner on, and it was in a really bad shape (something of a science fair presentation) so my parter quit at the start and I dragged it through and scraped a B+ while my partner failed on his second project.

    So anyway, my OTHER friend and I have been far into brainstorming and design. We currently have one FULLY plotted level with enemy placement, plot lines, and events. We also have all the models we will so far need. All we need to do now is programming. We plan on doing ONE level as a demo and from there expand on further ideas.


    So I cant do anything you mentioned up there. But I'm willing to learn. So links would be nice, lol.

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    I am going to be nice and give you a little reality check without being overly petulant:

    on small projects, that little part about "all we have left to do is programming" is, honestly, 99% of the work. Making designs and plotting stuff as you've mentioned is fun and relatively easy. Programming is difficult* and often pretty boring.


    *Understatement.

    I'm not trying to demotivate you or be a jerk (I find myself saying this a lot) but just be realistic about the whole thing. You're very likely to quit if you set your goals too damn high and expect too much from yourself.

    edit:
    and about the links thing, look at the sticky at the top of the game programming forum.
    Last edited by Darkness; 01-27-2005 at 10:59 PM.
    See you in 13

  13. #13
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    All we need to do now is programming.
    So basically the whole engine then? That's a lot.

    There is a huge difference between the engine of a game and the data the engine reads and uses. The data is just as important for without it there would be no game, but the engine equally so because without the engine there is no way to present the data.

    So I'd say that it's a 50/50 split. You can't have one without the other. But that's still a lot of work to do. There is a lot of boring tedious stuff that goes into game engines - stuff that is so important if you code it incorrectly it can make or break your entire setup.

  14. #14
    S Sang-drax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suzakugaiden
    Furthermore, 3D is probably the least abstract form of game graphics. The more abstract and simple you can get the visuals [...]
    Umm, I don't follow you here. Abstract != simple.
    3D is not the least abstract form of game graphics.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkBrute
    OK, i know that it is a hard step to take. But I have NEVER stopped anything that I started.
    You'll fail this project nevertheless, if you don't try something easier first.
    Last edited by Sang-drax; 01-28-2005 at 08:56 AM.
    Last edited by Sang-drax : Tomorrow at 02:21 AM. Reason: Time travelling

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    Sang, he actually made a very good point and he's correct. Abstract graphics are less about realism and more about representation. In the older 3D computer games the graphics were less realistic, and only served to 'represent' 3D walls and crates and enemies and stuff. As graphics get more realistic and less abstract, it gets much harder.
    See you in 13

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