What do they use?

This is a discussion on What do they use? within the Game Programming forums, part of the General Programming Boards category; What language is used to make console games like for the ps2? And what is used to make games on ...

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    What do they use?

    What language is used to make console games like for the ps2? And what is used to make games on the computer?

    I may look like an idiot for this but oh well.

  2. #2
    Used Registerer jdinger's Avatar
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    To answer both your questions: C++. At least the majority of developers use it. For the PS2, though, you have to get their dev kit which as I understand is quite expensive.

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    Originally posted by jdinger
    To answer both your questions: C++. At least the majority of developers use it. For the PS2, though, you have to get their dev kit which as I understand is quite expensive.
    The Linux dev kit is only $200.00. That's not that bad of a deal if you ask me. They use C/C++ but their own API's.
    "...the results are undefined, and we all know what "undefined" means: it means it works during development, it works during testing, and it blows up in your most important customers' faces." --Scott Meyers

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    Visionary Philosopher Sayeh's Avatar
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    To answer both your questions: C++. At least the majority of developers use it
    Uh, no. I know you might be crushed to learn this, but the majority of games on _any_ platform, PC or console, are written in C and assembler. The fact that I worked in the industry on FPS and 6DOF models and know lots of the people there, probably is just incidental.

    C++ is a fine language, but the compiler technology isn't adequate yet. As such, the binaries are too slow and bulky. PS2 doesn't have a lot of RAM to work with.

    You can't even get the XBOX SDK without approval from Microsoft and be 6 months away from completion of your world-shaking game.

    And don't even THINK about working for a game company unless you code 30 hours out of every day and already have Quake IV written (that you put together over the weekend just for the interview) in your hip pocket to demo.

    Yep-- competition to get into a game company is that fierce.
    It is not the spoon that bends, it is you who bends around the spoon.

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    Used Registerer jdinger's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Sayeh
    Uh, no. I know you might be crushed to learn this, but the majority of games on _any_ platform, PC or console, are written in C and assembler.
    Oh, then I guess that almost EVERY studio that's had a postmortem in Game Developer mag in the last few years was lying? Very few claimed to use asm and none claimed to use C. Almost all claimed to use C++.

    **edit** oh, sorry, I just reread the last paragraph of your post and realized you were joking...
    Last edited by jdinger; 09-02-2002 at 09:14 PM.

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    Oh, then I guess that almost EVERY studio that's had a postmortem in Game Developer mag in the last few years was lying? Very few claimed to use asm and none claimed to use C. Almost all claimed to use C++.
    I know, you're desperate, but you're wrong. I am a member of gamasutra and regularly read the postmortems. In the first place the postmortems almost never _mention any coding language whatsoever_. Usually perhaps a script they used (like COSS) for scene loading. Many companies tend to be tight-lipped about their language of choice because that gives away performance-related info about their development efforts.

    Additionally, the postmortems generally tend to be about business aspects (deadlines, art problems, studio issues), not technical, coding aspects. And if they do cover performance issues, it's usually so vague that it doesn't mention anything at all.

    But since you are big on "studios" I talked to some of my friends at the worlds largest studio company-- Electronic Arts. They use C (and assembler) and C++, in that order. C++ is usually used for slower simulation games or for concept models.

    If you bother to look at the sourcecode, for samples that are provided each month, many of them are done in C++. But that is simply for expediency. It isn't meant to be a robust, game-grade, application. I mean- Westwood Studios even disclaims sourcecode in many of their examples as "poorly written".

    ---

    Instead of reading fluff from third parties, it would be useful if you actually tried to apply for work at game companies-- then you'd get an earful/eyeful for what they really want. I wasn't joking.

    Ever hear of an "NDA"? That's a Non-Disclosure-Agreement. A contract all developers sign which prevents them from revealing, or discussing present technologies.

    About the only thing you have going for your argument is the fact that C++ will become more wide-spread because more and more "grunt work" is being handed off to GPUs and ends like DirectX and OpenGL.

    And if you think AOE (Age of Empires) is a performance simulation-- you need to get your crayons out again and start at square one.
    It is not the spoon that bends, it is you who bends around the spoon.

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    Used Registerer jdinger's Avatar
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    Hey! You're a member of Gamasutra too? Cool. In that case you should have warned me in all fairness that you have friends at EA and therefore all of my posts are useless tripe.

    No, I don't know anyone at EA or Blizzard, etc., and yes I do get a lot of info from GDmag, where TimeGate's Kohan lists 250,000 lines of C++ (some assembly), Treyarch's Spider-man lists 300,000 lines of C++, Bohemia Interactive's Operation:Flashpoint lists 250,000 lines of C++ (some assembly) and LucasArts (Factor 5) says "Nothing beats a clearly structured project from a programmer's point of view, and using C++ can be a tool to achieve this. We took the time define up-front the class hierarchies and other guidelines for all the programmers working on the project."

    I'm not discounting C. I use quite a bit of it in my C++ code. I did not mean for my original answer to be so be-all-end-all and exclude C. But I do not for one second believe that all major development houses use C exclusively. That's bull. But of course, I don't have the friends you have and I have no chance of winning a debate with someone whose bio proclaims:

    This field wasn't long enough to entire all the things I am an expert in (either certified or degreed), plus my incredible depth and breadth of all things fascinating. I kid you not.
    Oh, and where in either of my previous replies to this thread did I ever mention AoE?
    Last edited by jdinger; 09-03-2002 at 07:16 PM.

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    guys chill, just some misunderstanding if it makes u fell better i suck more than both of u lolz
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    Okay

    Okay so now I now that they use C++ for computer games. But maybe I missed it in reading the replys but what is used to program games on consols, do they also use C++?

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    Registered User Coder's Avatar
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    About the C & Asm VS C++ thing

    I'd just like to add that the following games are made in C++ :
    Battlezone, Unreal, DNF ( based on Unreal engine, as far as I recall ), Soldier of fortune ( they converted the Quake2 C source to C++ ), blood II, no one lives forever ( Actually the lithtech engine is in C++, and I believe AVP2 is based on lithtech too ), Doom III engine.

    I've got the following list from http://www.research.att.com/~bs/applications.html

    Sierra On-line: Birthright, Hellfire, Football Pro, Bullrider I & II, Trophy Bear, Kings Quest, Antara, Hoyle Card games suite, SWAT, and too many others to list...
    Blizzard: StarCraft, StarCraft: Brood War, Diablo I, Diablo II: Lord of Destruction, Warcraft III, World of Warcraft.
    Quicksilver: Shanghai Second Dynasty, Shanghai Mah Jongg Essentials, Starfleet Command, Invictus, PBS's Heritage: Civilization and the Jews, Master of Orion III, CS-XII.
    Microsoft: all games.
    Muhammad Haggag

  11. #11
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    Now they mostly use C++ and some asm. Asm is just for the things that must be computed very fast. They use asm just for the performance.
    Current projects:
    1) User Interface Development Kit (C++)
    2) HTML SDK (C++)
    3) Classes (C++)
    4) INI Editor (Delphi)

  12. #12
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    >
    But maybe I missed it in reading the replys but what is used to program games on consols, do they also use C++?
    <

    i culd be wrong but, all the underlying code and info i've heard tells me purely asm + C, they may do some SDK stuff in C++ or allow/recomend the use of C++, but from what i can tell the underlying code is asm+C.
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