ok. I learned truebasic (stupid). Im pretty good with it. Now i got microsoft visual c++ and have been fooling around with it not knowing what i was doing. im very confused with all these mfc, win32 app, makefile, etc. stuff. anyways, what do you guys mean when you say "blah blah 'include graphics'"? Also, the 12 year old kid said "the first 3 weeks i could only make output in the black console window". Thats all i can do, lol and i thought that was good. you mean you can have much cooler stuff than that? dude, someone please give me a thorough explanation on all this stuff. thanks