OpenGL for games

This is a discussion on OpenGL for games within the Game Programming forums, part of the General Programming Boards category; Is OpenGL the best thing for making games? I havent been learning c++ for long (just tinkered with quake code ...

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    OpenGL for games

    Is OpenGL the best thing for making games?

    I havent been learning c++ for long (just tinkered with quake code over the past few years, just recently buckled down and started learning VC++ 6.) but so for its looking pretty easy... At the moment I'm trying to learn and memorize the code for openGL at the Jehe site... let me know If I'm studying the real good stuff:)

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    OpenGL is the most powerful commercially available graphics library, so to answer your question OpenGL is da good stuff.
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    Frustrated Programmer :( phantom's Avatar
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    Learn the basics of C++ and then when you have done that learn openGL (while you continue to learn C++ of course )
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    Registered User Esss's Avatar
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    > OpenGL is the most powerful commercially available graphics library, so to answer your question OpenGL is da good stuff.

    Along with DirectX, which (in addition to being equally powerful) is better documented.
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    its really a matter of opinion on wether to use DirectX or OpenGL, I presonally use OpenGL, but others prefer DX

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    I hear about people that perfer DX, but ive never actually seen one that perfers DX, if they know GL?

    OpenGL is the way of the future.

    And as for the comment about better documentation, what more can you ask for than the source code, thats one thing you will never get for DX. The open in OpenGL means that its open source.

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    Registered User Esss's Avatar
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    > I hear about people that perfer DX, but ive never actually seen one that perfers DX, if they know GL?

    I note that the Unreal engine's Direct3D renderer is superior to the OpenGL renderer. There are plenty of excellent Direct3D games out there. If OpenGL was as superior as you make out, why do you think people use Direct3D?

    > OpenGL is the way of the future.

    In your opinion.

    > And as for the comment about better documentation, what more can you ask for than the source code, thats one thing you will never get for DX.

    There's a lot more to documentation than source code. Do you propose to learn to program the C++ STL by studying its source code, or by browsing its documentation and tutorials?

    What use does an OpenGL developer have for the source to one implementation of the API - the "OpenGL Sample Implementation" - not the one they're actually using?

    > The open in OpenGL means that its open source.

    What did it mean two years ago, then? The OpenGL sample implementation was released last year.
    Last edited by Esss; 09-27-2001 at 06:32 PM.
    Ess
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  8. #8
    Frustrated Programmer :( phantom's Avatar
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    I chose openGL over DX for one reason and one reason only, openGL is open platform and DX is windows only (at the moment). I couldn't be stuffed learning both
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    Haveing the source is just a better type of documentation, you go do an google search for DirectX and OpenGL

    OpenGL 622,000
    DirectX 549,000

    Now take into account that DX works with more than just graphics, so that means that only a part of those hits has to do with graphics.

    And it is true that many games use Direct3D instead of OpenGL, thats because the guys that wrote those games know DX because it has been around for so long, and they are just learning OpenGL which is why the GL renderers are generally slower.

    Heres the test, go program the exact same program with GL and DX, and then say that DX is faster, Its a fact that GL has a faster rendering pipeline than DX.

  10. #10
    Registered User Esss's Avatar
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    > Haveing the source is just a better type of documentation, you go do an google search for DirectX and OpenGL

    What exactly is that to prove? I can do the same for Linux versus Windows 2000; it remains the fact that Microsoft's documentation is far superior to their competitors'.

    > And it is true that many games use Direct3D instead of OpenGL, thats because the guys that wrote those games know DX because it has been around for so long, and they are just learning OpenGL which is why the GL renderers are generally slower.

    Excuse me while I pick myself up from the floor from laughing. OpenGL was introduced in 1992, four years before Direct3D. Direct3D changed radically in 1997, and changed again last year. Yet people still support it.

    > Heres the test, go program the exact same program with GL and DX, and then say that DX is faster

    I have produced an application that attempts to do so, in Unreal. Do you have a counterexample?

    I never stated that one or the other was faster - there is no reason for either to be. Differences in performance are most likely due to poor drivers.

    > Its a fact that GL has a faster rendering pipeline than DX.

    Let's see a technical reason for this assertion, hm? I think you'll find there is precious little performance difference between DirectX Graphics 8 and OpenGL.
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    >I have produced an application that attempts to do so, in Unreal. Do you have a counterexample? <

    thats BS since the GL renderer is poorly written.

    >
    I never stated that one or the other was faster - there is no reason for either to be. Differences in performance are most likely due to poor drivers.
    <

    a possibility, look deeply at the implementation, documentation, specifications, and how they work, the difference in speed can be astounding. In Fact the only reason DX can begin to out preform GL is drivers fail to fully support it.

    try a G-Force 2, GL Vs DX and tell me Unreal Tournament is faster in DX, GL usually gets a + of about 10-20 FPS. Ive seen it with my own eyes.

    >Let's see a technical reason for this assertion, hm? I think you'll find there is precious little performance difference between DirectX Graphics 8 and OpenGL.<

    Dx-8 is not that much faster that DX-7, and GL consistently will out preform it.

    OpenGL looks better, its faster, and its cross platform, its as simple as that.
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    Frustrated Programmer :( phantom's Avatar
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    This discussion is like 'Star trek' V 'Star wars', both sides have their advantages and disadvantages. As I have said in a previous post, my reason for opting for openGL had nothing to do with speed, rendering, pipelines or any other technical reason.
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    Registered User Esss's Avatar
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    > thats BS since the GL renderer is poorly written.

    I'm waiting for your counterexample. I'm quite willing to say that Unreal's GL renderer is poor; I'm not as willing to say that since it is, GL is necessarily faster.

    > try a G-Force 2, GL Vs DX and tell me Unreal Tournament is faster in DX, GL usually gets a + of about 10-20 FPS. Ive seen it with my own eyes.

    Well, I've seen exactly the opposite. Which says something for your assertions.

    > OpenGL looks better, its faster, and its cross platform, its as simple as that.

    Would you like to explain to me how hardware transforms, hardware lighting and hardware rasterisation can produce something that looks different in OpenGL from DirectX? The hardware doesn't care what API you use, and to be honest, I think you're deluding yourself.

    DirectX is good enough for the vast majority of applications. No-one significant is deriding its performance any more. Some people prefer DirectX's APIs, some OpenGL's. Performance - in a world limited by card fill rates, T&L rates and CPU speeds - is no longer the issue.

    I take it you've written code for both?
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    >I'm waiting for your counterexample. I'm quite willing to say that Unreal's GL renderer is poor; I'm not as willing to say that since it is, GL is necessarily faster. <

    Quake 3 Arena, its simple faster in GL.


    >Well, I've seen exactly the opposite. Which says something for your assertions.

    how optimized was the card? if its not optimized then everything runs like ****.

    >
    Would you like to explain to me how hardware transforms, hardware lighting and hardware rasterisation can produce something that looks different in OpenGL from DirectX?
    >

    if your going to tell me you don't know already then maybe you should go back and study how these API's work before you try and tell me its not possible.

    if you RUN UNREAL IN BOTH THEN TELL ME YOU TELL ME THAT GL DOESNT LOOK BETTER THEN YOUR BLIND OR LIEING!!

    >
    The hardware doesn't care what API you use, and to be honest, I think you're deluding yourself.
    <

    quite te contrairy, new hardware has specific chips with the implementations of both on them, and there are plenty of damned things that GL has that Direct-X doesn't they use completely different ways of accomplishing different things that utilizes COMPLETELY different parts of the hardware acceleration, and if your TELLIN ME THE HARDWARE TREATS THEM THE SAME THEN...

    >DirectX is good enough for the vast majority of applications.

    quite true.

    >No-one significant is deriding its performance any more. Some people prefer DirectX's APIs, some OpenGL's. Performance - in a world limited by card fill rates, T&L rates and CPU speeds - is no longer the issue. <

    features.

    >I take it you've written code for both?

    first irrelevant
    second very little Direct-X
    Last edited by no-one; 09-28-2001 at 11:54 AM.
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  15. #15
    Registered User Esss's Avatar
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    > how optimized was the card? if its not optimized then everything runs like ****.

    GeForce2 MX, 1290 drivers.

    > if your going to tell me you don't know already then maybe you should go back and study how these API's work before you try and tell me its not possible.

    Can you tell, or not?

    > if you RUN UNREAL IN BOTH THEN TELL ME YOU TELL ME THAT GL DOESNT LOOK BETTER THEN YOUR BLIND OR LIEING!!

    I'm evidently blind, since I can't tell the difference.

    > quite te contrairy, new hardware has specific chips with the implementations of both on them, and there are plenty of damned things that GL has that Direct-X doesn't they use completely different ways of accomplishing different things that utilizes COMPLETELY different parts of the hardware acceleration, and if your TELLIN ME THE HARDWARE TREATS THEM THE SAME THEN...

    Are you telling me that on hardware already strapped for chip space, people are going to optimise for two different APIs? Especially two as similar as DX8 and GL?

    If you have some documentation to this effect, I'll back down quite happily - but until then...

    > features.

    Such as? I've yet to see a consumer hardware feature that's not supported by DX.

    > first irrelevant

    Nonsense. If you haven't written DirectX and OpenGL, how can you presume to compare?
    Ess
    Like a rat in a maze who says,
    "Watch me choose my own direction"
    Are you under the illusion
    The path is winding your way?
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