OpenGL for games

This is a discussion on OpenGL for games within the Game Programming forums, part of the General Programming Boards category; >GeForce2 MX, 1290 drivers. im mean was the Card tweaked you've got to alter the settings for the card using ...

  1. #16
    Has a Masters in B.S.
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    2,267
    >GeForce2 MX, 1290 drivers.

    im mean was the Card tweaked you've got to alter the settings for the card using some sort of tweak program.

    >Can you tell, or not?

    hell yes.

    >I'm evidently blind, since I can't tell the difference.

    evidently you are... i sure as hell can.

    >Are you telling me that on hardware already strapped for chip space, people are going to optimise for two different APIs? <

    So what your telling me is that cards don't optimize Dx or GL!!!! omg...

    >Especially two as similar as DX8 and GL?

    their not similar at all really, their arcitecture is completely different if you knew anything about GL you'd know that already.

    >If you have some documentation to this effect, I'll back down quite happily - but until then...<

    Ati's new 8500 board has built in chip optimizations for both,

    http://www.ati.com/na/pages/technolo...e/radeon_8500/

    >Such as? I've yet to see a consumer hardware feature that's not supported by DX. <

    i was talking about API features,
    Examples?

    two sided polygons for starters.
    OS independence,
    Two sided lighting,
    Volume Textures,
    Hardware independant Z buffers,
    Accumulation Buffer,
    Stereo Rendering,
    Point and line sizing,
    Picking without utilities,
    Parametric Curves and Surfaces,

    satisfied?

    >Nonsense. If you haven't written DirectX and OpenGL, how can you presume to compare?

    I've looked deeply into both API's strong and weak points, OpenGL is in my opinion better while GL lacks some things and Dx lacks others, OpenGL in my opinion is better.

    You apperantly don't use OpenGL, and I Don't use Dx but i know the differece on sight.
    ADVISORY: This users posts are rated CP-MA, for Mature Audiences only.

  2. #17
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    412
    I find it funny, noone, as your first point, if anything, is a strong statement AGAINST OpenGL.

    You're basically saying, "If you hyper optimize performance for this specific API, this API works really well" -- my response to this is, "duh". It would hardly be optimization if it didn't improve the performace. This proves NOTHING except that video cards may be tweaked, it says nothing one way or another, really, about DX or GL.

    Further, you say that "how optimized was the card? if its not optimized then everything runs like ****. " This is a strong anti-GL statment, as if the card, and driver support for popular cards won't give good results out of the box, why should people use OpenGL? For those 0.01% of gamers who WILL tweak their video cards for one particular game?

    Moreover, you seem to say things to the effect that "if all renderers, drivers, and hardware was optimized for OpenGL, it works really well." Again, "duh". You aren't saying ANYTHING with this -- hell, I could create a new 3D API, and say "well, if the renderers, software, and hardware would completely support this, it would work really well." ANYTHING works well once people highly optimize for it.

    You do see why these arguments don't work, correct? If you strongly select towards a certain outcome, then you can't claim that outcome is valid across the entire population unless ALL the population optimizes as well. An example is if I polled MENSA members to get an idea of the average IQ. I'd get something ungodly far away from the average real world IQ, because my test selected only individuals with high IQ.

    So, you can optimize for OpenGL and claim it works great and is the best thing in the world, or you could optimize for DirectX and claim IT works great, and is the best thing in the world. Overall you proved nothing more then the fact that you can optimize a machine for one particular purpose. The results have no validity in the computer world at large.

    In fact, an optimized system is a TERRIBLE candidate for comparison, because the results are most certainly NOT typical (unless the optimizer screwed up bigtime).

  3. #18
    Has a Masters in B.S.
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    2,267
    ok maybe you need more clarification,

    >
    You're basically saying, "If you hyper optimize performance for this specific API, this API works really well"
    <

    thats not what im saying at all, see below.

    >
    Further, you say that "how optimized was the card? if its not optimized then everything runs like ****. " This is a strong anti-GL statment, as if the card, and driver support for popular cards won't give good results out of the box, why should people use OpenGL? For those 0.01% of gamers who WILL tweak their video cards for one particular game?
    <

    Most of the GL enhancing Card features are default off,

    i can get 200+ fps from tweaking the card on both sides Dx and GL, with a minimum speed increase of DOUBLE!, thats all im saying some cards do not have default opts on so GL usually gets the butt end in preformance, so therefore ANY UNTWEAKED COMPARISON IS WRONG!

    >
    So, you can optimize for OpenGL and claim it works great and is the best thing in the world, or you could optimize for DirectX and claim IT works great, and is the best thing in the world. Overall you proved nothing more then the fact that you can optimize a machine for one particular purpose. The results have no validity in the computer world at large.

    In fact, an optimized system is a TERRIBLE candidate for comparison, because the results are most certainly NOT typical (unless the optimizer screwed up bigtime).
    <

    thers one thing you all seem to forget, the MS SOFTWARE GL IS AN INVALID COMPARISON SINCE MS DOESNT UPDATE MAINTAIN OR OPTIMIZE IT IN ANY WAY!! THATS WHY A HARDWARE ACCELERATED TEST IS NEEDED!

    and beyond that its almost impossible to find a software comparison of both. but in most cases GL STILL IS FASTER!
    Last edited by no-one; 09-28-2001 at 09:03 PM.

  4. #19
    .
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    598
    I think nexe.gamedev.net sums it up very well

    Choosing between Direct3D and OGL is a very simple task. Just choose the one you prefer out of these two:
    glDrawElements( GL_TRIANGLES, ..., ..., ...);

    or

    pDevice->SetVertexShader(...);
    pDevice->DrawPrimitiveUP(D3DPT_TRIANGLELIST, ..., ..., ...);


    It's that simple. Which one is more your style? If it's the first one, head on over to NeHe.Gamedev.net. If it's the second one, stick around.

    *** Important Note ***
    An alternative way of doing the above code in OpenGL reads like this:
    glBegin(GL_TRIANGLE);
    glVertex3f(..., ..., ...);
    glVertex3f(..., ..., ...);
    glVertex3f(..., ..., ...);
    glEnd();
    and don't tell me anything about cross platform. Windows runs on 99.9999999% of the computers that will actuly buy they games.

    Why does everyone argue about graphics libarys so much? I quicly ran in to problems for input when using opengl. One of my main bugs in godpong was you had to keep pressing the key and moving the joystick. Just from sunlighs tutorial I could see that the joystick would not be a problam.
    To Err Is To Be Human. To Game Is Divine!"

  5. #20
    Has a Masters in B.S.
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    2,267
    >and don't tell me anything about cross platform. Windows runs on 99.9999999% of the computers that will actuly buy they games. <

    92% is the actual figure, and OpenGL runs on Windows too lets not forget.

    >Why does everyone argue about graphics libarys so much?

    im sick of people BS about D-X if your gonna sell it tell the truth at least.

    >
    I quicly ran in to problems for input when using opengl.
    <

    OpenGL is graphics only that makes sense,
    have you tried GetAsyncKeyState()?

    >
    Just from sunlighs tutorial I could see that the joystick would not be a problam.
    <

    Sunight does know a hell of a lot about everything, i must say he straightened me out on a few things.

    still he like Esss didn't realize, or won't adimt to a superior Graphics API.heheheheheehheehehe...

  6. #21
    Registered User dirkduck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    428
    i agree that neXe sums it up well....

    "I quicly ran in to problems for input when using opengl. One of my main bugs in godpong was you had to keep pressing the key and moving the joystick"

    OpenGL is a graphics API, therefor, it doesnt affect teh user input at all.

    "still he like Esss didn't realize, or won't adimt to a superior Graphics API"

    damn straight

    ...but i gotta say,, everyone is entitles to theyre opinion, for me its OpenGL by far, but for say Esss, its DirectX (i assume...)

  7. #22
    Unregistered
    Guest
    ALthough gl runs better with my graphics card it is very quite old but sill beta buy dx is version 8. From what I see GL is better for 3d dx is better for 2d.

  8. #23
    .
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    598
    <OpenGL is graphics only that makes sense,
    have you tried GetAsyncKeyState()? <

    >OpenGL is a graphics API, therefor, it doesnt affect teh user input at all. <

    I am not that stupid, I know that OpenGl is only for graphics. I used SDL, for input and I can tell you that DX is far supperior. BTW SDL is used by loki.
    To Err Is To Be Human. To Game Is Divine!"

  9. #24
    Unregistered
    Guest
    OpenGL has far better documentation if you're willing to buy a book. Red and Blue books well I know of nothing in the D3D world to match them also the OpenGL game programming book is excellent for inexperienced programmers like me. The docs that come with directx aren't too great IMO.

    Performance differences are negligable unless your card has ****e drivers.

    D3D has native support for pixel and vertex shaders currently you have to use vendor specific extensions to access them in OpenGL although this will change soon hopefull with a generic extension. When OpenGL 2.0 is released that will be completely solved and OpenGL will have support built into the API.

    Extensions are both a blessing and a pain, OpenGL gets new features first through them but it is a pain to implement all these vendor specific extensions.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Popular pages Recent additions subscribe to a feed

Similar Threads

  1. Linking OpenGL in Dev-C++
    By linkofazeroth in forum Game Programming
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-13-2005, 11:17 AM
  2. OpenGL Window
    By Morgul in forum Game Programming
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-15-2005, 01:34 PM
  3. OpenGL .dll vs video card dll
    By Silvercord in forum Game Programming
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 02-12-2003, 07:57 PM
  4. OpenGL and Windows
    By sean345 in forum Game Programming
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-24-2002, 11:14 PM
  5. opengl code not working
    By Unregistered in forum Windows Programming
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02-14-2002, 10:01 PM

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21