C++ Templates book discussion

This is a discussion on C++ Templates book discussion within the C++ Programming forums, part of the General Programming Boards category; >> I have the book. Which book do you have? You said you had one of the books. Later you ...

  1. #16
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    >> I have the book.
    Which book do you have? You said you had one of the books. Later you said it was the Vandevoorde book. I am talking about the Alexandrescu book. Unless you were mistaken earlier in the thread, my point still stands and applies to that book specifically.

  2. #17
    MFC killed my cat! manutd's Avatar
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    I have the Vandevoorde book. My mistake, I didn't understand which book you were talking about. As I have been saying, using a book that covers template programming in a couple of chapters and the use of the Internet should be fine. However, as I also said, it is dependent on your situation. Some will need a book. I didn't, and so I put my opinion out there to tell those so that they had an opinion. Having seen both sides of this, I personaly don't think you need to plunk down $60 odd bucks on a book.
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  3. #18
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    $40 and some, actually. Your opinion is worth what it is worth.

    I have both books. Josuttis & Vandevoorde and Alexandrescu's. Saying that C++ Templates: The Complete Guide is not a book worth its money is really missing the point of the book. It's looking at the book and not understanding one word of what it is written there.

    > As I have been saying, using a book that covers template programming in a couple of chapters and the use of the Internet should be fine

    Right. So is the STL, and OOP and C++ for that matter!
    Try looking for metaprogramming in the web. I'm interested in your findings and the amount of time you spend clearing all the clutter, dealing with all the misinformation and errors, and finally come up with real, useful information on what it is and how you do it.

    > However, as I also said, it is dependent on your situation. Some will need a book. I didn't

    If you didn't need a book about C++ templates, then you don't know the power of c++ templates. You only think you do. Just so that you know, before the Alexandrescu book, people hardly knew what to do with templates. That book was THE eye opener on the power of template based programming and spurred an whole movement. If this proves something is that just because templates are there, it doesn't mean we fully understand them.

    However suit yourself. Just don't please offer your opinion as an advise. Your opinion is wrong.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  4. #19
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    Well, I liked the Vandevoorde book very much. It contains all the little details (and there's a lot of details) in one handy place. I'm afraid I just don't trust the internet to get all this information straight, and the standard itself is so unreadable ...
    All the buzzt!
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  5. #20
    MFC killed my cat! manutd's Avatar
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    Your opinion is that I am wrong. I am not debating that Alexandrescu's book reinvented template programming. But now that it did, much of this information is available on the Internet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F.
    It's looking at the book and not understanding one word of what it is written there.
    Actually, I did. I also understood what I read on the Internet, much of the smae information. I do have a job in this, you know. I use templates in one way or another every day. And I use the Internet to look up things that I do not remember. I don't get out a book and look in that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F.
    Saying that C++ Templates: The Complete Guide is not a book worth its money is really missing the point of the book.
    WhatI said was that it wasn't worth it to me. I didn't need a book, as I found out after I had bought it and realized that the information was available online. For some, it absolutely is worth the money. I am providing my view for those who may think like me. Do not mistake that for thinking that the book is worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F.
    However suit yourself. Just don't please offer your opinion as an advise. Your opinion is wrong.
    My opinion is being offered as advice. That's all it is. Advice. Not an order. From my experience you do not need a book. My experience. What I've experienced is not wrong, it is just different. Notice that I am not calling buying a book a stupid decision, just one I do not think is needed. Stop acting like you know that your opinion is the only one. It's not. Deal.

    And at CornedBee: DOn't get me wrong, I enjoyed the book. But I've been able to find the same info online and thus think that it is not need in my case. (Notice a theme).
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  6. #21
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    >> Just don't please offer your opinion as an advise. Your opinion is wrong.
    First, I disagree that manutd's opinion is wrong. It is an opinion. I disagree with it and happen to think it might be a misinformed opinion, which is why I entered the discussion, but it is a valid opinion nonetheless.

    Second, you of all people should not be chastising others for offering incorrect information as advice, and certainly not with such an arrogant tone. At least that's my opinion on the matter.

  7. #22
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    > you of all people

    Great!

    Not sure if I understand what that means. But I try my best to offer good advice. If I failed sometimes certainly I did being ignorant of the fact. I do remember though, that I always retract my words on the few ocasions I was called to attention. I don't stick to my opinions (especially when I'm shown I was wrong) like a mantra.

    I did appreciate that "of all people" though. It was quiet informative of your opinion.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F.
    Not sure if I understand what that means. But I try my best to offer good advice. If I failed sometimes certainly I did being ignorant of the fact. I do remember though, that I always retract my words on the few ocasions I was called to attention. I don't stick to my opinions (especially when I'm shown I was wrong) like a mantra.
    an opinion can never be wrong, they get formed by certain experiences.

    I would love to see manut give a typelist example here though

  9. #24
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    It is my opinion then that opinions can be wrong and can be debated.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  10. #25
    MFC killed my cat! manutd's Avatar
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    But that is counter intuitive. By definition, you do not have to agree with me. But it is my opinion and as it is formed by my experiences, do not call it wrong. Also, I haven't been "shown wrong". Others have had different opinions and experiences than I have. Its not a "mantra". It is my belief and, whether you agree or not, you'd do well to be less arrogant and self-assured.
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  11. #26
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Don't assume I'm being arrogant, because I'm not. I'm talking and defending a point of view different than yours. Self-assured perhaps because I truly believe opinions exist to be discussed and evaluated for their worth. Counter-intuitive is assuming that just because I have an opinion based on my experience I can't be wrong.

    Are you that sure you know all there is to know about templates? What will you think when it comes the time you have to apply that knowledge and you find that the non indexed, widely dispersed, and quiet frequently erroneous and non detailed information over the web doesn't allow you to code what you have been asked to?

    Are you going to buy a book? Are you coming back here, revitalize this thread and agree that your strategy didn't work after all? Or will you prefer to post the question and silently forget what you said before?

    By your own experience, you can easily extrapolate that you don't need books to learn STL, OOP, Threads, or even C++. In a way you are right. The information does in fact exist in the web. My doubt though arises from the fact this information is not organized, neither it is fully correct on all instances, it isn't comprehensive on most cases, and all in all, is a nightmare to collect, organize and become by itself the sole learning tool.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F.
    Don't assume I'm being arrogant, because I'm not.
    The opinion that you are arrogant could be formed based on the experiences with you in this thread lol
    You can say that you're not, but that wouldnt make the opinion "wrong"

    I still wanna see manut give a typelist example though!

  13. #28
    MFC killed my cat! manutd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F.
    Don't assume I'm being arrogant, because I'm not.
    Oh really?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F.
    Your opinion is wrong.
    Arrogant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F.
    If you didn't need a book about C++ templates, then you don't know the power of c++ templates. You only think you do.
    Arrogant. Enough?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F.
    Counter-intuitive is assuming that just because I have an opinion based on my experience I can't be wrong.
    No, that is intuitive. My experience and my job tell me this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F.
    Are you that sure you know all there is to know about templates?
    No, but this would hardly be possible. Do you know everything?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F.
    What will you think when it comes the time you have to apply that knowledge and you find that the non indexed, widely dispersed, and quiet frequently erroneous and non detailed information over the web doesn't allow you to code what you have been asked to?
    Apparently you can't understand these words: I use templates in my job! The time has come and gone many times!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F.
    My doubt though arises from the fact this information is not organized, neither it is fully correct on all instances, it isn't comprehensive on most cases, and all in all, is a nightmare to collect, organize and become by itself the sole learning tool.
    I don't agree. A chapter or two of the basic essentials of meta-programming in a book and then the rest of the small details can be found relatively quickly.
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  14. #29
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    I said all I had to say about this.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  15. #30
    MFC killed my cat! manutd's Avatar
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    Agreed. Good debate, but this isn't going to get resolved anytime soon. Each person can have their own opinion(s), so lets leave it there.
    Silence is better than unmeaning words.
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