Thread: What can I do in c++, that I can't do in c?

C != Mastering Low Level Computing
Different subjects. C is just a means to an end, but other languages (e.g. assembly, C++) can also work towards this end.
If you want to learn low level computing, you should take a computer architecture course, and even work through assembly.

C++ is not just "helpful for professional programmers to build large projects", it's a fundamental improvement to every aspect of C, as well. Again, it's up to you, but you seem to have some misconceptions about C++. C++ ranges all the way from low level to high level. You can master low-level programming in C++ too, if you so choose. You just need to stay away from higher-level abstractions. "a lot of syntax I find unnecessary" is a very weak argument. It seems to me more likely that you aren't familiar with the syntax, so you just can't be bothered to learn the syntax regardless if it helps you achieve your goals or not.

And SQL is unrelated to C and C++. I also use SQL, but that that project which uses the database, I use C#, since C just doesn't cut it (for me). So, it depends on the environment and requirements, really. Also learning C will NOT help make you a better SQL programmer. If you want to learn SQL, go learn SQL, not C. Way different areas.

You also seem to be under the impression that, if you learn C, you somehow magically are able to gain significant understanding or master over other fields or programming tasks because C can do them. That's not true. If you're going to use heavy object orientation, for example, you're not going to use C. You're going to use C#, C++ or Java. That's because they are better at it that C, even if C can theoretically DO it. But you still have to learn those languages and how to object orientation in an optimal way too. Learning C doesn't teach you that. Similarly, mastering C won't teach you how to use SQL efficiently or even understand it very well. It won't make you a better SQL programmer. What it WILL do is perhaps make you a better C programmer. But that's it.

If you want to master a subject, then study that subject, not its underpinnings. SQL and C are completely different.

Again, I have read one c++ book in the past week, c++ faqs. And I read through about 95% of it. Over the past couple of weeks, I have been mostly studying c in my free time. I do admit that c feels like it has something missing, which could likely be fulfilled by studying c++. But I do hope to put in (x) number of hours into c before moving onto c++. Thus, I will start studying c++ or something else once I feel that studying c isn't cost beneficial from a time allocation standpoint. Ultimately, I'd like to read and master The Art of Computer Programming, which is highly mathematical. If I find that studying The Art of Computer Programming is (in coding speak), a waste of resources, notably time resources, I will abandon that book as well. But I will likely eventually move onto c++ if it is beneficial for me to do so.

Also, while studying c does not make me a better SQL programmer compared to actually studying sql, it does improve my understanding of how to write sql code when I have to write sql code. Again, I have limited time resources, so (while studyingC > studyingSomethingElse) ++studyingC;

Originally Posted by Terrance

Also, while studying c does not make me a better SQL programmer compared to actually studying sql, it does improve my understanding of how to write sql code when I have to write sql code. Again, I have limited resources, so while I'd like to improve my c skills, I will ++studying c.

If you mean moving the data from the database after having executed the query, then you may be right. But it won't improve your understanding of sql queries or how they're executed or how to write them in an efficient manner.

Elysia will defend and fight the C++ corner no matter the road blocks you put up. She is a very
competent programmer and has a lot of skill with the language - so of course she knows exactly
what she is talking about, It may be an idea challenge some of her arguments if you don't fully
understand them - it will make you a better computer scientist in the long run.

Have you ever attempted low-level abstraction programming before? If not - are you sure it's
something you want to dive in with? I am not saying C/C++ is the bad place to start - but
what basics of programming are the familiar with? If you understand top down development,
repetition, data structures (arrays) and basic I/O then why not leap head first into C++?

If you want to get your feet wet in the language - start of slow. Learn the complex bits
when you have a firm grasp on the basics. Do not be afraid of pointers either - they play such
an important role (especially in C) and is one key are that Java and to a lesser extent C#
remove you from.

I'm not defending C++ per se - I'm defending the idea of choosing a language to study based on sound principles, not on a syntax whim. If the OP wants to study C, that's fine. Just do it on sound principles.

Hi, yes, I have a background in programming. Again, I first learned programming at one of the nation's top coding boot camps 13 years ago. I studied c for over 60 hours per week for a month, and then c++, also at 60 hours per week for two months. I then did 60 hours per week of training in c# and windows programming for two and a half months, and overall I did over 1000 hours of training in c/c++/c#. Although at the time, I was only 21, and I was not able to find a job as a professional computer programmer, as I did not have a degree at the time. Instead, I went back to college, and got a business/CIS degree, which allowed me to specialize in business studies and get a broader education. Now I work as a business analyst, but much of my job consist of programming in SQL, so I have only now gotten the chance to apply my programming skills in the real world, after 13 years of knowing how to code. Since I studied CIS in college and not computer science, I basically never studied c or c++ again.

Why I like c is that it is so mathematically intuitive, even though I had not written a large c program in over 13 years. The core syntax of c is very basic and intuitive, but I have only been studying it again for a few weeks now. I am already trying to leap over to my final goal which is to read and master the book The Art of Computer Programming. I hope to put a lot of hours into studying this book, and I feel after a few weeks I have already grasped enough of c to make the leap to The Art of Computer Programming, which was my primary goal in the first place.

So I have covered most of the topics covered in a computer science curriculum, even though I don't have a computer science degree. The programming boot camp I took was designed by a college professor, so it covered algorithms and data structures in depth. We covered arrays, linked lists, bubble sorts, and I think recursion, trees, etc. In fact the coding boot camp I took covered almost twice as much c++ (at six weeks, plus personal study time), compared to 4 weeks of c. So it covered everything taught in a computer science curriculum except for compiler design and computer architecture. The second half of the coding boot camp was almost all software engineering in c#, so that is where I really learned to code. It's just unfortunate that after all these years, it is only now that I can apply my programming skills in the real world.

I have always wondered if C was never created, would Bjarne Stroustrup still created C++? And if so - would
John Gosling and Sun Microsystems have had enough influence to create Java?

Originally Posted by swgh

I have always wondered if C was never created, would Bjarne Stroustrup still created C++?

I think he probably would have. His reason for creating C++ is that the tools he needed did not exist. In this case, C existed, so he took it as the base and improved upon it. But that's not to say there aren't other languages that could have served as a base. C++ did not just inherit from C, after all.

Originally Posted by Terrance

This means I've studied a lot of algebraic theory, arithmetic, and mathematics of resource allocation, and all of these are the root concepts of the c language.

Based on everything I've read about the history of C's development, this statement is certainly wrong. I don't think any of those things formed the basis of the C language as a concept.

Frankly, I don't think C is a particularly good language for expressing mathematics. Any language has the ability to do basic arithmetic, because thats what computers do.

Instead, I suggest you check out Scheme (which is a Lisp-like language) and Standard ML (more like Haskell syntax) which are both functional languages with a strong basis in mathematics.

EDIT: I'm not trying to push the OP away from using C or C++; of course its useful and educational to do so, but not for the reasons the OP stated, IMO.