Thread: Opinions for a school project

A programmer who knows only one language is like a carpenter with only a hammer.

Pretty soon, every problem looks like a nail.

You should embrace the opportunity to learn something new which is more relevant to the overall problem domain.
If you truly understand "OO" concepts, then OO in C++ is little different from OO in Java. Once you've figured out how to declare a class / methods / member variables, the rest is easy.

When I was a student, undergraduate computer science/engineering majors in my university were required to do a group project with five or six students in a team. The project always had roughly the same product to be designed and implemented (a basic static analysis tool for a simplified programming language), but the programming language used for its implementation alternated between C++ and C#. In earlier modules, students would have used Java, so they were not expected to have prior knowledge of C++ or C#.

Now, the interesting thing is that the statistics across several years showed that when the programming language for the semester was C++ the projects tended to have more bugs uncovered during the testing for grading than when the programming language for the semester was C#. Of course, this does not mean that C++ programs are necessarily more bug prone than C# programs. My interpretation of the statistics is that without a background in the programming language and faced with a project bigger than any they have ever done, students tended to pick up C# faster than C++ such that they were able to avoid bugs better in C# than in C++.

Frankly, I was not surprised: even among my peers who had some experience in C++, they approached C++ as C with classes, i.e., they tended to be ignorant of the then-modern C++ idioms and techniques, in particular their tendency to do manual memory management and lack of awareness of the possibility of reducing code duplication by writing fairly simple function and class templates. The lecturers promoted libraries like Boost, but many students were weak in their knowledge of even the standard library.

Therefore, I do not agree with Salem's claim that "once you've figured out how to declare a class / methods / member variables, the rest is easy". If that were true, then drawing on the analogy, C++ would be just another hammer, though one with maybe a differently decorated handle. Rather, as with all other programming languages, there are idioms and libraries to draw upon, and in C++, not making use of them appropriately leaves you more open to disaster than with a language like C#.

Originally Posted by wtd81

my team assumes I'm good at programming because of that, so they pretty much gave me the title of developer since they're more interested with analysis than programming.

In a team of five people, there cannot possibly be four analysts and one developer, unless three of the analysts were redundant to begin with. Resist accepting this "title". All five of you should have practiced your analytical, planning and presentation skills in the first semester, and now all five of you should develop the program.

So, do none of your fellow team members have any experience with C++, especially modern (post-C++11) C++? If so, then you should be aware that while it is good and interesting for you to attempt this in C++, be prepared for a harder time, and consequently, a possibly lower grade. Grades aren't everything, but sometimes they do matter. If you do have someone in the team who can be the "language expert" to coach the others, then this problem could be mitigated (though it also depends on how effective this mentor is: personally, I felt I did a bad job).

@Hodor Who is forcing anybody to use "modern C++"?

Originally Posted by Hodor

I, personally, don't find anything much to complain about "old-style c++" (the only thing I would complain about is if a purported C++ language class taught that style because it offers nothing, really, but convenient approaches to what you would normally do in C anyway).

What is "old-style c++" to you?

Originally Posted by Hodor

Essentially C with classes.

And without exceptions? That might work, but you throw away so much of what is available unless you have a ready-made framework built around that (e.g., in some of those subsets of C++ used in niche areas). Consequently, students who tried that approach, if they even of nothrow new, would have been at a disadvantage vis-a-vis students who made better use of C++, or students who used C#. As such, they would have had less time to find and fix bugs, leading to the same observation from the statistics collected by the faculty.

Thanks for bringing this up, laserlight!

and I do agree that it sounds crazy to have 4 analysts and 1 developer, to be honest it's obvious to me that they're pretty much trying to avoid programming, many people that joined the school was expecting it to be basic computing teaching, you know, how to format a computer, hardware maintanance, etc. We learn it there too but the primary focus is programming. So because of that many people already gave up and honestly I think there will be more following the same way, even in my team, sadly. This whole programming thing was something completely new to most of the students in there (and in my group as well), so no, they really don't have any experiences with C++, I think the closest they got so far is what they've learned in C.

But I didn't saw it as some kind of injustice or whatever, like Salem said, I'm seeing it more as a big opportunity for me, and of course I think I can't expect none of it to be so easy.

We still have 2 semesters to bring up the final result, so it's like almost a year. But like I said, for the second semester we must decide what language we will be using and I'm still with this thing in my head, just continue with Java or try with C++...

I would suggest deciding on the front-end type before deciding on the Language.

Is it going to be Web Based or normal program based?
In the real world having the Guest interface being web based is likely common.
But, the staff interface would likely be a normal program.

And, I would investigate the database server and how to connect with it before deciding on a Programming Language.

FYI: You might pick two Programming Languages one for the front-end and one for middle-ware.
As in C++ for the front-end and C for the middle-ware.

You will need to pick a Database lead who does most if not all of the work on the Database server.
This should NOT be the person who does the front-end.

I would also decide on what version control system your team will be using if you have NOT already done so.
But, if you have no experience with version control; it might be better to figure how to backup your work on a different computer, instead.

Tim S.

Originally Posted by wtd81

I'm in a team of 5 people (myself included) and we must develop a project for school.
...
I was used to C before I got in the school, so I had good results and my team assumes I'm good at programming because of that, so they pretty much gave me the title of developer since they're more interested with analysis than programming.

By your other team members saying they're more interested in "analysis", it sounds rather like your other team members may be taking advantage of you (either intentionally or not), by expecting you to do all the work. In a team project like this, everyone must write parts of the program. You are the lead developer so you should insist on this. Construct a framework for the program, set up version control and then insist that each member makes regular commits to his/her assigned components. This way is also better for you in the end, because real non-trivial programs can't be created by one person alone.

Originally Posted by stahta01

FYI: You might pick two Programming Languages one for the front-end and one for middle-ware.
As in C++ for the front-end and C for the middle-ware.

Don't use C for this stuff. It will just hurt your productivity IMO. It just wasn't made for today's big, complex software development processes. C's strengths lies in its simplicity (good for language implementers), low level (good for interfacing with hardware), low memory usage (good for memory constrained devices such as embedded systems) and small standard library (good for space constrained devices such as embedded systems). None of these strengths are applicable to high-level abstraction software such as hotel management. I don't figure speed is going to be a huge issue either, furthermore discounting C as a good tool for the job.

I'd like to say C++ is a good tool, but unfortunately its standard library is severely lacking for modern software development, so you pretty much have to rely on 3rd party libraries for GUI, networking, database, etc. These days, I'd just pick C# as the tool for software developement IMO. It offers a much better standard library than C++, has more language features than Java and is closer to C++ than Java. Of course, it's not without its downsides, but that's life.