why must everything be so difficult!

This is a discussion on why must everything be so difficult! within the C++ Programming forums, part of the General Programming Boards category; normally, i use Dev C++ as my compiler. you type in some words and if they are in the C++ ...

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    why must everything be so difficult!

    normally, i use Dev C++ as my compiler. you type in some words and if they are in the C++ language, you click on the compile button and have your program.

    the other day i bought something that came with Visual C++ introductory edition. i cant even make a simple text program with it.

    this is the most obfuscating compiler i have ever had to work with. finally, i got a simple little program from the book (i have no idea what i did to make it, but it compiled), and every time i run it, it gives a pop up message saying that under the license agreement, i cant distribute this program.

    listen, microsoft... i clicked 'agree' on the license agreement. that means you dont have to remind me EVERY TIME I RUN A PROGRAM what i can and can not do with it.

    but thats a seperate matter. the main point of this post is that, even though i consider myself at least slightly above novice in C++, i cant do a thing with this supposedly 'easy to use, user friendly' program.

    i dont know if i want help with it (thats assuming i even understand any help given to me), or if i just want advice on what to do to get to where i can program more advanced things.

    im sick of everything having to be so overwhelmingly complicated. why cant they make it to where if i know the right keywords, i can make an application do what i want? im having to teach all of this to myself because no one i know can program C++. im to that point where i can either learn something interesting enough to keep me programming for the time being, or i can just throw it away and pick up some other skill.

    i really want to learn this, but i just had to pick one of the most complicated things in the world to try and learn.

    why must everything be so difficult!!!
    I came up with a cool phrase to put down here, but i forgot it...

  2. #2
    left crog... back when? incognito's Avatar
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    listen, microsoft... i clicked 'agree' on the license agreement. that means you dont have to remind me EVERY TIME I RUN A PROGRAM what i can and can not do with it.



    How about you use DevC++ until you know enough to use the other one (by the one that you CAN distribute your programs) or something I don't know, and use the other one when something that seems right won't compile under DevC++ so you get a better idea of where your mistake is.
    There are some real morons in this world please do not become one of them, do not become a victim of moronitis. PROGRAMMING IS THE FUTURE...THE FUTURE IS NOW!!!!!!!!!

    "...The only real game I thank in the world is baseball..." --Babe Ruth

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    Left cprog on 1-3-2005. Don't know when I am coming back. Thanks to those who helped me over the years.

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    well, first of all, i dont even know how to make a prog in visual C++, so it wont matter if it seems right in dev, i wont ever get it working in MVC++

    and another thing: i have a fear of being limited. it sounds kinda silly, i know, but i cant stand to think that im learning it all wrong and will have to go back and re-learn it later. i wanted to get the single most universal compiler and be able to write universal programs and never have to learn how to do something incorrectly and then have to re-learn it. and i dont like to think that by learning to write a prog in dev, it will never translate over into the real world if i ever decide to program on a more professional level.

    i just want to learn it the same way i would learn, say, math.

    it doesnt matter what math class you are taking, 1 + 1 will always equal 2. a squared plus b squared will always equal c squared, no matter what paper you write on or what math book you do your homework from. why cant programming be like that? why does everyone have to do it differently? why do i have to do hours of research online just to figure out what library i need to include to be able to draw a circle? i should be able to type

    drawcircle(10, 20, /*x,y position */ 5 /*radius*/ );

    and it draws it. C++ programmers are so smart they can remember all of these libraries and files and keywords and use all of this logic in their programming, but they arent smart enough to figure out how to make things this easy?

    i just want to program something a little more complex than

    enter name: x
    your name is: x

    i want to learn it but i dont know how. i dont know what i need and i dont know anything about anything other than a few simple keywords and concepts. where is the explaination for people like me? must i spend years in a high level programming school just to be able to draw a circle on the screen? surely there must be a way for someone like me to be able to learn this and maintain interest the whole time without feeling like he is constantly going down the wrong path or missing something.

    ..... but where do i find it????
    I came up with a cool phrase to put down here, but i forgot it...

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    the hat of redundancy hat nvoigt's Avatar
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    C++ programmers are so smart they can remember all of these libraries and files and keywords
    Nope. Sorry,but without my helpfile I would not code a single line. Yes, I know most functions. But if my helpfile would not be available for a day, I would go home and come back when it is.

    For MSVC:

    Start the program.
    Select File->New Project->Win32 Console Application.
    Step through the wizard.
    There you are. A new console project,waiting for you input ;-)

    Neither C/C++ nor VC are easy. But the hardest tasks offer the best rewards
    hth
    -nv

    She was so Blonde, she spent 20 minutes looking at the orange juice can because it said "Concentrate."

    When in doubt, read the FAQ.
    Then ask a smart question.

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    Originally posted by nvoigt


    For MSVC:

    Start the program.
    Select File->New Project->Win32 Console Application.
    Step through the wizard.
    There you are. A new console project,waiting for you input ;-)


    i would like to say that helps, but it really didnt.

    so i compiled it (or 'built' it... msvc offers both, and neither seem to do anything), but there is no executable.

    plus, i hate how everything i do in msvc has to be in a project. in dev, i can just make a single text file, name it .cpp, and then compile it without any hassle. when i make a .cpp file in msvc, it adds a folder with a bunch of files that i have no idea how to use, and when i compile or build it, it doesnt give any errors, but it doesnt give a .exe file either.

    its just really starting to rub me the wrong way.... if i had someone that could show me how to use it and walk me through it, id probably give it a chance, but as it is, im considering uninstalling it...

    that just seems like the stress free way to go.
    I came up with a cool phrase to put down here, but i forgot it...

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    argh...

    *disregard*
    I came up with a cool phrase to put down here, but i forgot it...

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    As usual, the clue is in the question.......

    ... is using VC++ Introductory Edition, and to quote (Microsoft)

    ...Introductory Edition is bundled with textbooks only and is not sold separately. It contains the same basic features of the Standard Edition, but it does not install online help files or allow the user to create the executable files needed to distribute their applications. An executable, or .exe file, is the stand alone file that runs an application....

    Hence the copyright notices & lack of EXE.

    QED.
    Visit entropysink.com - It's what your PC is made for!

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    yeowch..... that sucks......

    what idiot would make a compiler that doesnt compile?

    i looked in the store for the standard edition, but couldnt find it anywhere.

    i guess im stuck with Dev C++ and text based console applications for the rest of my life. i can rest assured that things dont get easier from this point.....
    I came up with a cool phrase to put down here, but i forgot it...

  9. #9
    Fingerstyle Guitarist taylorguitarman's Avatar
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    I hated MSVC when I started using it too. Now I compare all of the other IDEs to it. I can't stand not having code completion. Bottom line, you'll get used to it. It is a good product, but it takes a bit more to learn than others.
    If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around to see it, do the other trees make fun of it?

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    Originally posted by ...
    yeowch..... that sucks......

    what idiot would make a compiler that doesnt compile?

    i looked in the store for the standard edition, but couldnt find it anywhere.

    i guess im stuck with Dev C++ and text based console applications for the rest of my life. i can rest assured that things dont get easier from this point.....
    I don't get your complaint. MSVC compiles fine for me. There are 3 buttons you click: Compile, Link, and Run.
    You can also select source file from the new file menu.
    The Learning Edition doesn't let you make a distributable build. You have to pay MS more $ for that license. If you're a college student, you can get the Standard edition at a cheaper price, although you're not supposed to sell any programs you write.
    I don't know Dev C++, but if you're just filling in cookie cutter keywords, it sounds pretty limited.

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    As for it not creating executables.. you should be able to find these in a 'Debug' folder in the same directory as your source files. (This is the default configuration)

    You don't have to worry about project files if you don't want to, but when you get programming with Windows, and larger applications you'll see that they're great.
    If you want to skip the whole project thing, just click on your source file and compile it, sure itt'l create half a dozen other files, but the only one that matters is the source.

    I think you'll get to like Visual C++, it's the best IDE i've seen so far. Just keep at it and things will come; I found myself getting frustrated much like you when things didn't make sense to me... but it only gets easier as you go. (At least it has so far )

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    so should i go get the standard edition?

    i understand how it can be good, but i just dont know how to get it to do simple things.

    as for the guy that made the comment on dev C++... dev is a great compiler, and its better than boreland in ease of use in my opinion. its just that i dont know if it has the full capabilities that msvc does...

    i guess that could make a good next question. could i concievably make a program that is just as good in dev if i wanted to, or would i need msvc to do anything really worthwhile?
    I came up with a cool phrase to put down here, but i forgot it...

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    it doesnt matter what math class you are taking, 1 + 1 will always equal 2. a squared plus b squared will always equal c squared, no matter what paper you write on or what math book you do your homework from.
    None have to be true in math depending on what context they are in.

    i dont like to think that by learning to write a prog in dev, it will never translate over into the real world if i ever decide to program on a more professional level.
    If you learn to write code standard c++ in dev-c++ you will know
    how to write standard c++ code in vc++. dev-c++ or the actual compiler, mingw, with optimizing flags will probably produce better code than the standard vc++ with no optimizing flags.

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    You might try Borland's C++ Builder if you want something cheap. I got a free cd with it in the current issue of C/C++ Users Journal. Caveat: I haven't tried it yet (just got it), it's probably an intro edition, but it's free with the magazine.
    Not sure, it may be just a compiler, not an IDE, but you could write your .cpp in a text editor. Edpitpad Lite is a good one, lets you number the lines. I use that for Java.

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    if you want universal code look into RHIDE, it's a gui built for the win. port of gcc/g++, it's fairly simple. I haven't used it in awhile, but I think once you get it running you just need to set up the include paths and then hit compile. It's free and there is lots of info out there for both the g++ port and g++ itself (some not applicable to the port). In addition, since it is a port of a damn good unix compiler, it forces you to meet certain standards in c/c++ syntax, or will warn you if you don't. You can always include a library or call a function that behaves differently under another compiler/architecture but that just takes, yes, you guessed it, research. And as far as whining about not wanting to do any research as to what works how, and where...tough...this isn't math. Programming syntax's were created by man and therefore the rules can be bent to man's will. Anyways, good luck with whatever you do.

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