Thread: Difference between C++ and VC++?

there is no law around for forcing someone to use a specific item or
application. a programmer has the right of choosing his own Ide. a
tutorial (if even close to standard levels) will work with all Ides with
just a little modification. someone can recommend an Ide or something
but not force someone new to the scenes to use the recommended
item by that someone.

by the way, i think this thread should be in the
tech-board or the general-discussions board.
since there is not even a single line of code in
this whole thread....

If the thread is about C++, so rightfully it should be in the C++ board.
Of course, the discussion has touched some other points as well (most notable C++/CLI), but overall, it's still about C++.

Originally Posted by Rct. Tsoul

I do intend to buy Microsoft Visual Studio 2010 Ultimate, I wont need a DEV team, I can then make what ever I want for Windows, even an entire game within a mater of about 6 week, maybe less, and still have time to goto work, and make a living. The following level below took me 6 weeks and it not even finished on only 1 level using the crap SDK released for the game, Visual Studio is not just a C++ editor, it is like having a team of MIT graduates skilled in everything doing what you say, 3D modeling and animation and texturing, export capability, I am sure something like what I made below would only take a few hours at most on Visual Studio, I was sick and taking time off work is what even allowed me the time to do it in the first place.

First, in response to this, I would like to echo exactly what phantomotap already stated:

You are very clearly insane, a troll, and a liar.

Second: Visual Studio 2010 is not like having a team of MIT graduates at your side, and if you don't know how to program you won't get an ounce of a game complete.

Third: a large majority of MIT graduates could probably care less about Visual Studio. I bet you a cookie that (at least for their research projects) most of 'em use Linux.

Fourth: MIT graduate != awesome person who can do 3D modeling and animation

Fifth: If Visual Studio was as as amazing and so i-will-do-everything-for-you as you claim it to be, I'd have roughly 78 blockbuster games out on the market by now, and I'd be filthy rich. (Don't ask my how I calculated the number 78, as it should be evident from your post).

I have another question. Apparently, to access graphics in C++, it's necessary to reference to .NET... however, this won't allow the program to compile down to machine code.

Access graphics in C++? Oh, no, that's the job of a graphics library. And there's no need to reference .NET anyways - if you did, how would games for linux exist? As far as libraries go, personally I use Allegro. But I guess SDL, SFML, etc. are pretty good too. You might try looking them up. There's really no need to go down to OpenGL/DirectX anymore.

But wait just a minute... I'm getting ahead of myself. I ought to give the "learn your language well before attempting game programming" lecture.
So, here goes: learn your language well, then go to game programming. Work with console i/o, make text-based games, try your hand with structs and classes and whatnot, and learn the nuances of c - there are plenty to go around. It's going to take time, but you've got to start somewhere. You can't just go into calculus class your first day of high school and expect to understand it; sure, the teacher can teach you, and you can figure out how to get a derivative, but you won't understand why, or how, or even what you're doing. That's dangerous territory. Same goes for programming. Get the dirty work done now, and relish in your new knowledge as you move on to the sexier realm of game programming.

Hope it's not too much of a downer, it usually is for budding programmers. But games aren't god-awful expensive these days for no reason - they take a lot of time and effort.

I have another question. Apparently, to access graphics in C++, it's necessary to reference to .NET... however, this won't allow the program to compile down to machine code.

There are several graphics libraries out there that are not .NET dependent. bernt already stated many of them. SDL is my favorite.

There's really no need to go down to OpenGL/DirectX anymore.

That, however, is incorrect. Those are the prime libraries out there for 3D graphics, so you had better "go down" to OpenGL/DirectX if you want to do 3D. But all those other libraries are great for 2D graphics. They get the job done, and they do it well.

Those are the prime libraries out there for 3D graphics, so you had better "go down" to OpenGL/DirectX if you want to do 3D.

Well, there's Ogre3d, Irrlicht, Panda3D, G3D... I could go on if you wanted me to.
And the fact is that they serve the same purpose as SDL - namely, they provide abstraction from OS and the user's choice between OpenGL/DirectX, and they are well-programmed and convenient. You wouldn't use OpenGL directly to implement a 2D game because you can do the same thing in SDL. Why use OpenGL (directly) for 3D when you can do the same thing in, for example, Ogre3D?

And I guess I ought to explain my choice of words - "go down" referred to going to a low-level library (in this case, OpenGL as compared to any of the aforementioned 3D libraries).

Originally Posted by #include Jack

Ah, I actually meant without using a graphics library. Say if I wanted to apply something a little more stylish than the console for my very simple programs - merely as a way of experimenting without delving into the more complicated libraries. Is C++ not able to do that?

Maybe you mean a GUI? Of course that is not the same as "what would be necessary to produce the sort of graphics you see on the old 32-bit games" -- in which case you have two choices:

1) use an existing graphics library
2) write your own graphics library....

If you thot the first one was "complicated", the second one may seem "literally impossible".

Any graphics or GUI basically boils down to a library. C++ does not have inbuilt capability for creating these things with mere code.
You will need a library for graphics or GUI and that usually means learning how to use the library, too.
As for 3D, usually OpenGL and DirectX are the APIs to go for. This is true for the most advanced of games anyway, since I doubt all other libraries support all of the advanced features. But for smaller projects, sure.

If you have a non-express version of Visual Studio, you can use MFC.
You can also use raw Win32 API calls.
I'm sure there are plenty of other libraries you can use too.

Originally Posted by Sebastiani

Not a good choice, IMO. MFC was a poorly executed attempt to C++-ify the Win32 API. I'd go with something like wxWidgets, Gtk, or .NET, personally...

Yeah, I avoid MFC like the plague.