Compiler Issue

This is a discussion on Compiler Issue within the C++ Programming forums, part of the General Programming Boards category; Originally Posted by medievalelks Ugh. For such a simple example, why bother with an IDE at all? Learn how to ...

  1. #16
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by medievalelks View Post
    Ugh. For such a simple example, why bother with an IDE at all? Learn how to run the compiler on the command line and/or use a makefile. You can use an IDE when you start building more complex programs, but for learning exercises like this they just get in the way, and maybe even make it harder to learn.
    Ugh. Comments like these are highly subjective, and we had a discussion about these before, and I am going to tell you that I 100% disagree. Command lines are evil, and so are make files. Make files are especially evil for small, easy projects.
    This is all subjective, but then again, so is your opinion. An IDE is the best thing to do for a newbie.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  2. #17
    and the Hat of Guessing tabstop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Make files are especially evil for small, easy projects.
    This is all subjective, but then again, so is your opinion. An IDE is the best thing to do for a newbie.
    What do you think an IDE is, except a pretty face on a make file?

  3. #18
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Pretty faces are pretty - they hide the gruesome innards of things. I like pretty.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Pretty faces are pretty - they hide the gruesome innards of things. I like pretty.
    Then you should start programming in python or ruby. Those languages hide the gruesome innards which are exposed through C and C++. I think you would be much happier then.
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  5. #20
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    C++ hides the gruesome innards of C. No thank you.
    Don't take the replies literally. I was just writing a way of saying "command line compiling is subjective; perhaps you shouldn't mention it to a newbie."
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Ugh. Comments like these are highly subjective, and we had a discussion about these before, and I am going to tell you that I 100% disagree. Command lines are evil, and so are make files. Make files are especially evil for small, easy projects.
    This is all subjective, but then again, so is your opinion. An IDE is the best thing to do for a newbie.
    Couldn't disagree more. Why present a newbie with a dizzying array of buttons, menus, panes, etc. when you can teach them the basics of compiling with something as simple as "g++ main.cpp"? In .cpp program, out executable. Even better, show them how to compile and link separately.

    Or do you like the ten questions we get a week asking why nothing came out of the back of the magic box when they pushed the "Build" button?

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    The OP's question isn't answered yet. Is it necessary to derail the thread on something so subjective?

  8. #23
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    The whole idea of opening a command window and typing some unfamiliar stuff (and that isn't an optional command line either) is pretty intimidating to me.
    I mean, there is a reason why we use GUI instead of command line is all our electronic stuff, isn't there? I find myself having it easier to remember clicks (and being able to read what is in front of me) instead of scanning through a manual or lots of text to find the best way of doings things.

    Come to think of it, I just had a course today on peoples' behavior. And it turns out that doing a lot of stuff prior to make something work just discourages people.
    Saying "come in time" is not as likely to make people come in time as rewarding them when they do.

    Ah, and I do so agree of Daved's reply. But as for the original post: I believe we are waiting for the OP to return with more information.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daved View Post
    The OP's question isn't answered yet. Is it necessary to derail the thread on something so subjective?
    I believe it was answered. He downloaded and installed codeblocks-8.02-setup.exe instead of codeblocks-8.02mingw-setup.exe
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    Actually, I think it was answered (need to configure the compiler in CB). And I don't really think I derailed the thread, I merely offered an alternative way to learn programming that would avoid the OP's problem altogether.

  11. #26
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    The problem was a misconfigured IDE. Or perhaps mis-installed.
    It's the same as having a mis-configured compiler. Or mis-installed. I wouldn't separate those things as different problems at all. I think your way is just another way of compiling, not avoiding problems.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    The problem was a misconfigured IDE. Or perhaps mis-installed.
    It's the same as having a mis-configured compiler. Or mis-installed. I wouldn't separate those things as different problems at all. I think your way is just another way of compiling, not avoiding problems.
    Compiling on the command line most certainly avoids problems with IDE configurations,and the need to learn an IDE before you really need one (if you ever really do).

  13. #28
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    You need to learn the compiler to use it, just as you need to learn the IDE. And learning a compiler is usually more difficult then to learn the basics of an IDE (I'm talking about human perception).
    And I must point out that it is possible to incorrectly modify compiler configuration too.
    They seem rather "weak" arguments to use that way, it seems to me.

    It's another way, but I find it in no way superior to the IDE way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  14. #29
    Algorithm Dissector iMalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse20ghet View Post
    i have Code Blocks..
    And your web browser would be Yahoo...?
    </sarcasm>
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    >> I believe it was answered.
    Ok, the last response I saw was "i have Code Blocks.." It didn't seem like the OP understood what to do next.

    But as long as we're off topic, I think a simple IDE makes as much sense to start the user out with as command line coding (and certainly more than makefiles). I've seen plenty of people confused about the proper command line parameters to get a simple program to compile. The argument that we get 10 questions a week about IDEs doesn't mesh with my experience.

    Setting up an IDE is rarely more difficult than setting up a compiler by itself. Configuring it is rarely that difficult either. Finding the buttons for build and run also is pretty simple. IMO, use the IDE for intro to programming, and then in the second or third course (or later in the intro course) require makefiles for completeness of instruction.

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