New AI contest: suggestions?

This is a discussion on New AI contest: suggestions? within the Contests Board forums, part of the Community Boards category; OK, I'm thinking of hosting a new AI tournament like this one: http://cboard.cprogramming.com/showthread.php?t=58519 Do you have any game suggestions? Connect ...

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    S Sang-drax's Avatar
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    Question New AI contest: suggestions?

    OK, I'm thinking of hosting a new AI tournament like this one:
    Connect Four: The Tournament Results

    Do you have any game suggestions? Connect four was chosen because it is very easy to implement a minmax algorithm for, so now perhaps it's time for a game where minmax isn't very useful (many possible moves each turn).

    The game should be reasonable simple to play and write an engine for.
    Last edited by Sang-drax : Tomorrow at 02:21 AM. Reason: Time travelling

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    I don't know that much about AI algorithms, but from what I've read, minmax works best when there is no random factor. What about a game that did involve a random factor, such as Blackjack or Backgammon?

    [edit]Heh...or Mornington Crescent.
    Last edited by pianorain; 05-16-2005 at 01:04 PM.
    If I did your homework for you, then you might pass your class without learning how to write a program like this. Then you might graduate and get your degree without learning how to write a program like this. You might become a professional programmer without knowing how to write a program like this. Someday you might work on a project with me without knowing how to write a program like this. Then I would have to do you serious bodily harm. - Jack Klein

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    Cheesy Poofs! PJYelton's Avatar
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    Backgammon is good. It's logical enough for programming and plenty of strategy but with enough chance to make minmax close to worthless. I'd be afraid of not getting enough entries for it though. I think Blackjack would be a little too simple IMO, everyones program's would be nearly the same resulting in pure luck taking over.

    Another good simple game is Dots, but unfortunately that would definately be a minmax game.

    I dunno, I'm blanking on ideas. Battleship or yahtzee? Same problems as Blackjack I think. Bah, I'll keep thinking about it.

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    & the hat of GPL slaying Thantos's Avatar
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    Multideck blackjack. Would be fun to see the card counting algorithms

    To make it better make it casino style were everyone plays against the dealer. You start with a set amount of money and you are out when you lose your money.

    That would give you lots of paths to consider (like when to split etc)

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJYelton
    I think Blackjack would be a little too simple IMO, everyones program's would be nearly the same resulting in pure luck taking over.
    I don't think all the programs would be that similar. Take into account a betting strategy, and it seems that there is plenty of room for variation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thantos
    To make it better make it casino style were everyone plays against the dealer. You start with a set amount of money and you are out when you lose your money.

    That would give you lots of paths to consider (like when to split etc)
    Aye, this is what I meant. Not just simple blackjack.
    If I did your homework for you, then you might pass your class without learning how to write a program like this. Then you might graduate and get your degree without learning how to write a program like this. You might become a professional programmer without knowing how to write a program like this. Someday you might work on a project with me without knowing how to write a program like this. Then I would have to do you serious bodily harm. - Jack Klein

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    S Sang-drax's Avatar
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    Card games are interesting...
    Hold 'em or Black Jack wouldn't be too hard to implement, I guess.

    I've never played backgammon...

    Mornington Crescent... well, I want many players participating and that game requires advanced algorithms even to only be able to follow the rules. I guess we could use the War Provision Rationing Rules of 1942 to make things simpler, but where's the fun in that?
    Last edited by Sang-drax : Tomorrow at 02:21 AM. Reason: Time travelling

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    Cheesy Poofs! PJYelton's Avatar
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    I don't think all the programs would be that similar. Take into account a betting strategy, and it seems that there is plenty of room for variation.
    Good point. I'm all for this, it would be fun. Something like running 1000 hands and the winner of the round is the one with the most money and overall winner is the one who wins the most rounds. Maybe even let us tweak our algorithms a little bit in between rounds. We'd get a lot more entries for this than Hold'em I'm guessing.

    I remember writing a QBasic blackjack program that cardcounted about fifteen years ago, I'll have to see if I can find it

    [edit] I agree with Thantos, it would have to be against a casino dealer [/edit]
    Last edited by PJYelton; 05-16-2005 at 01:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sang-drax
    Mornington Crescent... well, I want many players participating and that game requires advanced algorithms even to only be able to follow the rules. I guess we could use the War Provision Rationing Rules of 1942 to make things simpler, but where's the fun in that?
    I agree completely. Such an oversimplification of the rules would greatly detract from the complexities.
    If I did your homework for you, then you might pass your class without learning how to write a program like this. Then you might graduate and get your degree without learning how to write a program like this. You might become a professional programmer without knowing how to write a program like this. Someday you might work on a project with me without knowing how to write a program like this. Then I would have to do you serious bodily harm. - Jack Klein

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    I'll go learn the rules of blackjack when this contest gets started.

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    Cheesy Poofs! PJYelton's Avatar
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    I agree completely. Such an oversimplification of the rules would greatly detract from the complexities.
    Aye, but to quote Sir Edward Pollack when he first petitioned for the addition of the War Rationing Rules back in 1942, "Without simplifying those rules which themselves have overcomplicated the game, one cannot truly appreciate the true complexity that is Mornington Crescent." The guy was a quack though.

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    Blackjack should be relatively easy. I would be willing to compete.
    The crows maintain that a single crow could destroy the heavens. Doubtless this is so. But it proves nothing against the heavens, for the heavens signify simply: the impossibility of crows.

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    Tropical Coder Darryl's Avatar
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    I think Risk would be a good game to try, fairly easy to implement, simple rules, elements of luck, and a lot of strategy. I like Risk because, though luck plays a role, but a good strategy could beat all but the "extremely" lucky.

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    S Sang-drax's Avatar
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    I don't know about Risk being easy to implement. Keep in mind that the last competition was connect four.
    Last edited by Sang-drax : Tomorrow at 02:21 AM. Reason: Time travelling

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    VA National Guard The Brain's Avatar
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    I vote for texax holdem'.. one human player vs. 3 to 5 computer players


    or how about spades.. with a computer partner.. vs. 2 other computer players
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    S Sang-drax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Brain
    one human player
    No human players, this is an AI contest.
    Last edited by Sang-drax : Tomorrow at 02:21 AM. Reason: Time travelling

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