C vs C++ - No, not another war-thread

[IceDane]

Yes, I know, this horse has been beaten to the brink of insanity, but here I am anyway. I've read some of the C vs. C++ threads I've found using search, but I have a question that's a bit too specific for those I've found.

Here's the deal - When I started programming a few years ago, I used C++. However, I finally realized that I was just using the "C part" of it. I never really used classes, because back then, I didn't feel like delving deep into the language. Hell, I never even used vectors, which are one of the most handy features of the language.

So I went to C, which also suited my needs a bit better to be honest. I was into exploit development, playing around with buffer overflows and the like locally and remotely on my other box on the network.
I feel that my grasp on C is a firm one, perhaps not THE firmest one, but I can do what I need to do.

However, as I started school, I finally saw the need to actually learn a language that I would be able to use as a professional programmer were I to become one(Which is the plan when I finish school). One aspect of that is to be able to develop GUI applications for the Windows platform and due to a lack of visual resource editors for C, I've not been able to stick with it, as coding every aspect of the GUI, manually entering coordinates for child windows in the parent windows and so on makes me mad.
Am I just missing those editors? I've tried using Visual Studio Express, but it doesn't really seem to be 'compatible' with my C code - gives errors if I use arrays for typedef'd microsoft types which are really just character pointers.

So, here's my question:

- Is C still, well, able to compete on the market? If you use C, do you do so professionally, and if you do, what does the company you work for use it for - Is there a lot of work?

- If you program in C, do you do a lot of GUI programming for the windows platform, and if you do, do you do it all manually or use some resource editor I've missed out on?


All answers, tips and the like will be extremely welcome. Also, do not hesitate to beat me senseless if I'm just worried over something trivial.

[Elysia]

Yes, C is still used, but GUI programming becomes much easier with C++ due to classes. I believe you need to dig deeper into C++ instead because it really provides so much more than C and it's also more standards compliant than most C compilers (however, not even C++ is fully standards compliant, but that's beside the point).
But I believe there are different markets for both languages. If you choose C, you will work with type X projects and if you do C++, you'll work with type Y projects.

[vart]

For GUI on Windows there is C# today...
And for real work there is C.

[Elysia]

You mean big, bloated, slow, retarded applications that are developed with C#.
I'm sorry, but I'll stick to C++ and MFC.

[matsp]

I work for a company that develops an OS in C++ for the embedded market.

We use C++, but I have yet to use std::vector in any of my work.

We also use third party code (e.g. device drivers) that are developed in C.

Linux & Windows kernels and many utilities on top of it is still using C.

Many embedded OS's are written in C, and applications in the embedded space are a mix of C and C++.

Graphical user interface functionality is often done in C++, for the very obvious reason that C++ is very good at "repeat and rinse" type things, meaning that there are an almost infinite number of "GUI objects" that all operate on a very similar principle of create, draw, interact, close. This matches object oriented programming fairly well.

--
Mats

[IceDane]

Hmm, maybe I shouldn't be obsessing over choosing one language or the other..

I should rather be using one language for one task and the other for another task?

Thanks for the advice. I think I'll continue learning C++ then.

EDIT:

Are there any visual resource editors similar to Visual Studio's one for C?

[matsp]

I should also point out that I got this job (Senior Software Engineer) based on C skills [near zero C++ experience in professional use, and not very much from using C++ "as a hobby"], even tho' all work is essentially C++.

If you have lots of knowledge of C, then you have probably already used C++ style solutions, at least in the form of function pointers inside structures and such things.

--
Mats

[Elysia]

I should rather be using one language for one task and the other for another task?

The thing is that once you know C, you know C++. You may not know all the fancy class stuff, but you can still do C++, and if you know C or low-level C++, then you do both types of works. Theoretically anyway.

Are there any visual resource editors similar to Visual Studio's one for C?

Go for C++ when it comes to GUIs. Win32 is a pain and Frameworks build (at least I believe so anyway) upon C++.

[laserlight]

We use C++, but I have yet to use std::vector in any of my work.

Do you use custom container class templates instead, or avoid template code altogether?

[matsp]

Do you use custom container class templates instead, or avoid template code altogether?

Yes, somewhere between those too - we have a number of container classes, but none of them do exactly replace std::vector - after all, it's an embedded OS, and applications aren't necessarily written in "standard C++" - there is nothing preventing the implementation of STL on top of the OS, just that:
1. I work more "inside" the OS than outside it.
2. There are other container types that are more appropriate for how the OS works.

--
Mats

[cpjust]

You mean big, bloated, slow, retarded applications that are developed with C#.
I'm sorry, but I'll stick to C++ and MFC.

Didn't you just contradict youself there?
Last time I checked, MFC was big, bloated, slow & retarded.

[Elysia]

Not retarded nor big, bloated perhaps, but never retarded.
And it is no way as slow as the big (20+ MB!), bloated, slow and retarded Dot Net Framework.
MFC is fine for apps without sacrificing big performance.

[abachler]

- Is C still, well, able to compete on the market? If you use C, do you do so professionally, and if you do, what does the company you work for use it for - Is there a lot of work?

C is used quite frequently for microcontrollers, PLC's and drivers as well. It's not a dead language by any means.

[Salem]

> Hmm, maybe I shouldn't be obsessing over choosing one language or the other.
A good idea. Think like a carpenter and choose the best tool(s) for the job.

A short answer would be "C++ when you can, C when you must".

> I should rather be using one language for one task and the other for another task?
It's what some large projects do, they use multiple languages.

[Prelude]

>Is C still, well, able to compete on the market?
It depends on the market. For areas where C excels, definitely. For areas where C isn't likely to be the best choice, probably not.

>If you use C, do you do so professionally, and if you
>do, what does the company you work for use it for
I do use it professionally, often side by side with C++. I work for a company that develops compilers and programmer support libraries.

>If you program in C, do you do a lot of GUI programming for the windows platform
I personally don't work with graphics at all, and as far as I can tell, our GUI people use more productive tools for their interfaces.