Vista design being forced on XP?

This is a discussion on Vista design being forced on XP? within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally Posted by Wraithan EE Majors aren't real people So their perception doesn't count. <-- Computer Engineer major EE is ...

  1. #61
    & the hat of GPL slaying Thantos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wraithan View Post
    EE Majors aren't real people So their perception doesn't count.
    <-- Computer Engineer major
    EE is crazy. CompEng is quite normal (in the crazy sort of way)

  2. #62
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kennedy View Post
    The bottom line is that for the more experienced users (especially those of us who started off in the command line only days) we don't like the cutesy fluff offered by the newer operating systems. To back my stance, I provide as an example Windows .Net Server. How many of you run/ran this?
    That's not all true. I was around the DOS days, but I like fluff. What I don't like is replacing menus with ribbons (when you're used to the menus!), "simplified" GUI or functionality and slow applications.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.
    For information on how to enable C++11 on your compiler, look here.
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  3. #63
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Yes, but you may as well the the minority here. Sorry 'bout that.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  4. #64
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Heh, but in such case, you could count me as the majority group who likes fluff
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.
    For information on how to enable C++11 on your compiler, look here.
    よく聞くがいい!私は天才だからね! ^_^

  5. #65
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    I have to sympathize - I'd prefer if things look futuristic when they are actually futuristic. Let's get some more realistic AI done, gentlemen, and then focus on how pretty we can make it for release.

  6. #66
    The superhaterodyne twomers's Avatar
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    >> It just happens fast enough that to our preception it is instant.
    Which doesn't even have to be that fast. Take the screen for example. What's the refresh rate? 30Hz? And that looks smooth.

    >> EE Majors aren't real people
    Hey. We have feelings, OK?

    I set my XP look to windows classical view cause the other one annoyed me, for some reason.

  7. #67
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    Conversely my ex-wife just recently switched to Vista after buying a new desktop and calls me every other day to help her locate things or handling things she doesn't know anymore where they are. The new security features alone almost drove me mad during the first week until her hollering over the phone made me go to her place and turn the bloody things off. For 2 years now I didn't have her asking me for help while she was using XP. She has to relearn the whole thing over again.
    Hehe. I know the feeling and your wife is not alone. Picture this. 6 or 7 developers are in a room about ready to do a code review. One fella brings in a laptop with Vista on it and we attempt to get it to connect to the LAN. But guess what? Since they changed the network dialogs and interface so much none of us could figure out how to use it, much less get it to connect.

    So what did we do? We went and got a laptop with XP on it. Good old XP was up, connected, and ready to rock in seconds. Vista was still asking us 'important security' questions and XP was ready to use. How is Vista an improvement here?

    I said I like Aero and I do. But Aero is where it stops. I love the flashy windows and cool GUI effects but I didn't say I liked how they moved everything around in the name of the casual user.

    If we cannot figure out how to get the stupid thing to connect or bring up the properties we need to modify settings, how is little old grandma gonna do it? I know if anyone asks me to come over and fix anything on their Vista machine my answer will be no.

    Aero is a good example of how to do a GUI right. Vista is a perfect example of how to abuse it.
    Last edited by VirtualAce; 02-28-2008 at 05:16 PM.

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    C++ Witch laserlight's Avatar
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    I said I like Aero and I do. But Aero is where it stops. I love the flashy windows and cool GUI effects but I didn't say I liked how they moved everything around in the name of the casual user.
    I remember reading an old pro-Linux article that argued that "Familiar is friendly". I have never used Vista myself, but I cannot help but wonder if that is what is happening here. Vista seems to have been made such that it is very different from XP, so so are not familiar with it. Thus, Vista is not friendly.
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  9. #69
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    I believe that has been the problem with many people, yes. A shame really because I do agree Aero looks nice.

    I couldn't agree more with that article on some aspects (not all). Familiarity is indeed friendly. It's in my opinion the most friendly aspect of an interface. Changes can be made. I don't defend stone age for everybody. But there must be some logic and they must be gradual. Why doesn't Microsoft introduce interface changes during the life of an OS version, but instead chooses to bundle them all on a new release? I will never know the answer to that.

    Microsoft carries too many "studies" and reacts in excess to their results. As a business it has fallen prey to the marketing hype that is usually carried out by marketing companies and their computer illiterate yuppies. "Studies" say the previous windows messages had too much jargon, were too condescending, and users felt offended by them. Microsoft buys that and decides to change most, if not all, his warning and error messages for Vista. The input was wrong and the reaction was excessive.

    As Bubba so well pointed out, when 6 or 7 developers including him, all in the same room have to fiddle around a new version of a familiar operating system for too long, and end up getting the old version back to do their job, something went seriously wrong.

    I had a phone call with a friend of mine. His a very successful software consultant with customers like GALP (oil company), banks and insurance. He told me he's advising most of his customers against Vista for now if they can't afford an initial drop in productivity that may extend well beyond that experienced by Windows XP.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  10. #70
    Ethernal Noob
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    I don't mind fluff, I love it, but let if be functional and intuitive.

  11. #71
    Registered User AloneInTheDark's Avatar
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    Buy a bigger monitor, get a new PC...

    or you could ofcourse go back to DOS... or old UNIX... or how about 19" black and white TV ?

    This is just normal, Technology moving forward...get over it!


  12. #72
    Registered User AloneInTheDark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laserlight View Post
    I remember reading an old pro-Linux article that argued that "Familiar is friendly". I have never used Vista myself, but I cannot help but wonder if that is what is happening here. Vista seems to have been made such that it is very different from XP, so so are not familiar with it. Thus, Vista is not friendly.
    That must be one of the most stupid quotes I seen. Quoting from a linux world where they don't generally like GUIs, and then eventhough you admit you never tried Vista, you claim it's not friendly! or go wondering, do you really work in the technology field?

    wow, the level of ignorance amazes me!

    Read a book, read a REAL book, educate yourself in the subject before speaking. Atleast try the damn OS before commenting it's "unfriendly"ness.

    Allow me to puke!

  13. #73
    C++ Witch laserlight's Avatar
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    That must be one of the most stupid quotes I seen. Quoting from a linux world where they don't generally like GUIs, and then eventhough you admit you never tried Vista, you claim it's not friendly! or go wondering, do you really work in the technology field?

    Read a book, read a REAL book, educate yourself in the subject before speaking. Atleast try the damn OS before commenting it's "unfriendly"ness.
    For your information, Windows XP SP2 is my primary OS. I am a student, so I do not yet work in the field. You clearly miss the point of the article. The article stated that Linux is unfriendly for those who find it unfamiliar. I am suggesting that the same logic may apply to Vista.

    Oh, and "wow, the level of ignorance amazes me!"

    However, I shall refrain from puking.
    Last edited by laserlight; 02-29-2008 at 07:28 AM.
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  14. #74
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    AloneInTheDark probably hardly skimmed the article, if he did that at all. Only way I can understand that... post of his.

    I'll comment on this though:
    Quote Originally Posted by AloneInTheDark View Post
    Quoting from a linux world where they don't generally like GUIs
    [...]
    Read a book, read a REAL book, educate yourself in the subject before speaking.
    Should I say, YOU get a book? How about you dealing with that ignorance of yours.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  15. #75
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citizen View Post
    I have to sympathize - I'd prefer if things look futuristic when they are actually futuristic. Let's get some more realistic AI done, gentlemen, and then focus on how pretty we can make it for release.
    Its nto that customers like fluff, its that project directors like fluff. When youa re workign on a difficult problem they .......... and moan unless you throw them the occasional fluff bone. New fluff is easy for them to equate to progress, while statements like ' yeah I implemented the linked list to auto deprecate the context handles and avoid that annoying resource based application freeze' just make their eyes cross. They dont understand that ........, they are too busy 'keeping it real', and will resent you fro saying somethign that gives them a headache just thinking about.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

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