Vista design being forced on XP?

This is a discussion on Vista design being forced on XP? within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Will anyone mention usability? I thought we were a programmers forum... just asking. EDIT: Ah! Kennedy just did. Thank you....

  1. #31
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Will anyone mention usability?
    I thought we were a programmers forum... just asking.

    EDIT: Ah! Kennedy just did. Thank you.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  2. #32
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Heh, wasn't that discussed already with Microsoft's Office Ribbon? How they take away the menus and add ribbons and toolbars instead?
    You're right. An easy to use GUI is the most important of all, then speed, and then a pretty GUI.
    But a pretty GUI shouldn't waste system resources either, and we'll all be happy. I think.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    But a pretty GUI shouldn't waste system resources either, and we'll all be happy. I think.
    Well, if the system resources are used on making the GUI pretty, then technically they aren't wasted, are they :P

    Has anyone here ever used Realteks AVRack, now THAT is an abomination, i think this is the only GUI that i would go so far as to call down right ugly, it's hideous basically..

    http://hwt.dk/images/literature/1638/1638-7.jpg
    How I need a drink, alcoholic in nature, after the heavy lectures involving quantum mechanics.

  4. #34
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neo1 View Post
    Well, if the system resources are used on making the GUI pretty, then technically they aren't wasted, are they :P
    Why not use the same resources for better functionality?
    "The Internet treats censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxorator View Post
    Why not use the same resources for better functionality?
    Well yes but then we are talking about priorities, some people will want better functionality, others will want retarded ribbons that makes your computer slow, in either way, it's not really wasting resources. Just as some people will want to spend their money on fast cars and others will spend it on expensive hardware...
    How I need a drink, alcoholic in nature, after the heavy lectures involving quantum mechanics.

  6. #36
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    Code:
    __________________________________
    _________________________________X|
    | Please choose one:              |
    |                                 |
    | A) retarded ribbons and crap    |
    | B) sleek, functional interface  |
    |                                 |
    |        OK         CANCEL        |
    |_________________________________|
    Problem solved.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by robwhit View Post
    Problem solved.
    The option is better than none. However I spend quite some time on a new Windows install turning off all the garbage that shouldn't have been there in the first place. GUIs that force their own interface &^%# me off. Fancy "features" that you actually don't use or need that waste my time &^%# me off just as much. Why do drop-down menus "slide" open by default? Are we all so horrifically retarded that this is actually amusing?

    "Select your Country"
    *click*
    *shwooooooooooooooooooooooooooop*
    *drool from mouth corner* *vacant stare* "Oooooo!"

    Anyways, it's obvious to tell how I feel about the subject.
    "There's always another way"
    -lightatdawn (lightatdawn.cprogramming.com)

  8. #38
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    And yet... near the top of our feature list for the next release was to add (as an option) the Office 2007 look and feel, which is basically just ribbons. Why? Because sex sells. We ask our devoted customers and hard core users what they think, and of course they'd much rather the effort be put into real meaty issues. But that doesn't mean that there aren't thousands of other customers or potential customers that wouldn't prefer ribbons or wouldn't think that the product is nicer/better/more modern than the competition that is fugly.

  9. #39
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lightatdawn View Post
    The option is better than none. However I spend quite some time on a new Windows install turning off all the garbage that shouldn't have been there in the first place. GUIs that force their own interface &^&#37;# me off. Fancy "features" that you actually don't use or need that waste my time &^%# me off just as much. Why do drop-down menus "slide" open by default? Are we all so horrifically retarded that this is actually amusing?

    "Select your Country"
    *click*
    *shwooooooooooooooooooooooooooop*
    *drool from mouth corner* *vacant stare* "Oooooo!"

    Anyways, it's obvious to tell how I feel about the subject.
    Uhhh... wow.
    It's prettier, that's all. It's nice to look at than just some box popping up right out of nowhere.
    All those who seem to think like this... GUIs are evil, pretty interfaces are evil, memory is everything, processor power is everything... Sometimes I think that they're all better off with DOS, and I can't figure out why.
    Why is it so important? Why is everything pretty bad? Why is GUI bad? Why is CLI good?
    Do you not like pretty things? Do you dull, ugly things? I'm sure you'd rather want a pretty vase than an ugly one. And the same goes for everything else... so why are computers and GUIs exceptions?
    Or am I off the target here?
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  10. #40
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Do you not like pretty things? Do you dull, ugly things? I'm sure you'd rather want a pretty vase than an ugly one. And the same goes for everything else... so why are computers and GUIs exceptions?
    Or am I off the target here?
    I swear, if you say it is pretty again I'm gonna smack you.

    You are indeed just a tad bit off the target. The issue is not about some people liking it, other not. The issue is about you not being able to do anything about it, if you don't like it. Especially when you already instructed your OS to not use the fluff as I have been doing ever since windows friggin'95 (before that we didn't have this problem).

    It is also about the fact the GUI changes in completely unusual ways. This is disruptive. User friendliness is also about consistency. You shouldn't tell people to relearn how to operate their OS every new version. And finally its about usability, this GUI is simply horrid. There's no file menu anymore! The working area is enormously reduced because of the size of those ribbon things. The logic is confusing with help items being spread in the ribbon and on the help menu and... on the Application Icon! Same goes for other usual stuff like items that you used to see on the ever present View menu now being scattered even on the status bar.

    Gah!
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Or am I off the target here?
    A little, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Uhhh... wow.
    It's prettier, that's all. It's nice to look at than just some box popping up right out of nowhere.
    I fail to see how it's pretier. It wastes time. It suppresses the beauty of my amazingly fast piece of electronics by pretending that a graphic button can't be loaded instantly.

    There are plenty of attractive features of many applications that don't detract from the useability. It's when I realise that my archaic PII machines can run a DamnSmallLinux distro and surf the net, play music, display movies, and network with my LAN, at speeds rivalling my spanking new Boxes with 64-Bit Dual Cores and 4 gigs of RAM, that I begin to get irate.

    It is my profound hope that with the slowing of processor progress in the near future, and Microsofts proclamation to produce a sleeker, thinner, more trimmed down OS, that we'll see application makers finally step up in this area as well. I see no reason at all that my web browser shouldn't open instantly. I mean instantly. I've disabled just about every feature it has to offer (Java, ActiveX, Javascript, Plugins, Sound, AutoComplete, etc), so what am I waiting for exactly?
    "There's always another way"
    -lightatdawn (lightatdawn.cprogramming.com)

  12. #42
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    I think GUIs are getting far more cluttered and fancy than they need to be. Half the time I turn off all the junk just so I can use the program like a normal application. Navigating icons, ribbons, etc, etc, is just terrible. MSN Messenger -oh,sorry, Windows Live Messenger insists on not displaying the menu and hiding the caption bar or title bar by default. Luckily this can be changed so menus are displayed and the title bar as well.

    However in my huge list of complaints about Vista, the interface and it's performance were not on the list. Aero is sleek, fast, and nice eye candy. I did not have any problems with Aero on my system and I miss it on my XP. Now I don't miss anything else about Vista so don't peg me as some Vista fanboy because I'm not. How other apps utilized Aero was another story. Most of them tended to heavily abuse their newfound functionality. But the overall basic Aero interface for Vista itself was very nice. Aero rocks.
    Last edited by VirtualAce; 02-27-2008 at 10:51 PM.

  13. #43
    CSharpener vart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lightatdawn View Post
    The option is better than none. However I spend quite some time on a new Windows install turning off all the garbage that shouldn't have been there in the first place. GUIs that force their own interface &^%# me off. Fancy "features" that you actually don't use or need that waste my time &^%# me off just as much. Why do drop-down menus "slide" open by default? Are we all so horrifically retarded that this is actually amusing?

    "Select your Country"
    *click*
    *shwooooooooooooooooooooooooooop*
    *drool from mouth corner* *vacant stare* "Oooooo!"

    Anyways, it's obvious to tell how I feel about the subject.
    Why to waste time on this?
    My computer/Properties/Advanced/Performance/settings/visual effects/Adjust for best performance - Click OK
    The first 90% of a project takes 90% of the time,
    the last 10% takes the other 90% of the time.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
    Now I don't miss anything else about Vista so don't peg me as some Vista fanboy because I'm not.
    This MUST be the understatement of the year. Shouldn't you be in the basement playing with voodoo dolls of Microsoft Devs?
    How I need a drink, alcoholic in nature, after the heavy lectures involving quantum mechanics.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by vart View Post
    Why to waste time on this?
    My computer/Properties/Advanced/Performance/settings/visual effects/Adjust for best performance - Click OK
    Obviously. But there is so much more housekeeping than just this simple step.

    Also; Some of the options available in this list I can see people enjoying. Others, I wonder why they hog my resources by default. The computer experience should be one of functional ease, simplicity, and reliability. One day, developers will strive for these things first, and others second.
    "There's always another way"
    -lightatdawn (lightatdawn.cprogramming.com)

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