Gender and Language

This is a discussion on Gender and Language within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; > Oh, so all students are he. I see. Don't blame me, it's the language. I try to avoid unnecessary ...

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    > Oh, so all students are he. I see.

    Don't blame me, it's the language. I try to avoid unnecessary uses of he/him, and sometimes "they" works, even if its ungrammatical, but I can't stand "s/he", or randomly choosing "he" or "she" - it's too hard keeping track of whether I'm maintaining a 1:1 ratio. If a short synonym for "he or she" starts getting used, I'll be happy to jump on the bandwagon.

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    I think, in this case, I blame you.
    You could easily have written it as:
    "But the very fact that it causes bugs means the students are already punishing themselves by not indenting while writing the code."
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robatino View Post
    > Oh, so all students are he. I see.

    Don't blame me, it's the language. I try to avoid unnecessary uses of he/him, and sometimes "they" works, even if its ungrammatical, but I can't stand "s/he", or randomly choosing "he" or "she" - it's too hard keeping track of whether I'm maintaining a 1:1 ratio. If a short synonym for "he or she" starts getting used, I'll be happy to jump on the bandwagon.
    Even easier -- just call everybody "it".

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    Quote Originally Posted by cpjust View Post
    Even easier -- just call everybody "it".
    I know that was intended humorously, but when AI catches up to people, that might actually happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cpjust View Post
    Even easier -- just call everybody "it".
    Only, that would be rude.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Only, that would be rude.
    That's why we need to add a new pro-noun to English to mean he or she but in a gender neutral way.
    Do any other languages have a word for 'he or she'?

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    That's why we need to add a new pro-noun to English to mean he or she but in a gender neutral way.
    That pronoun, ironically, is "he".
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    Quote Originally Posted by laserlight View Post
    That pronoun, ironically, is "he".
    Yeah, but that's a very old (politically incorrect) rule and it's obviously ambiguous.
    They need a singular version of "they".

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    Quote Originally Posted by cpjust View Post
    That's why we need to add a new pro-noun to English to mean he or she but in a gender neutral way.
    Do any other languages have a word for 'he or she'?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-neutral_language

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-...less_languages

    The second link has a number of examples of such languages.

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    Man, screw politically correct, what are we, a bunch of weak boned politicians?

    The word is there, it's not offensive except to over-sensitive people, it works fine, and it's not fabricated based on some "PC" perception.

    Just use it!!

    Gosh!
    Last edited by robwhit; 02-08-2008 at 12:16 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cpjust View Post
    Do any other languages have a word for 'he or she'?
    As you can see from the link, Japanese among one, can be very gender neutral due to words like "that someone" or "that individual" and more.
    And that's one big problem when translating from japanese to english. Lots of words lose their meaning. Stupid English.

    Quote Originally Posted by robwhit View Post
    Man, screw politically correct, what are we, a bunch of weak boned politicians?
    The word is there, it's not offensive except to over-sensitive people, it works fine, and it's not fabricated based on some "PC" perception.
    Just use it!!
    Gosh!
    Does that mean you endorse the use of "he" for all?
    Last edited by Elysia; 02-08-2008 at 02:08 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

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    English is not the only language that suffers from the problems you describe. Most languages have unique words and phrases; Japanese being no exception. English has a rich, old history and a lot of prejudices have been perpetuated, but most have words have either become antiquated or have better primary meanings in modern times. Out of all the words you could complain about, you chose the weakest ones. I've read about black people going to Japan to teach schoolchildren English, and the prejudices they face every day. Only a small-minded woman could take offense to someone not recognizing their gender 100% of the time for the sake of brevity. Meanwhile, white people can still use nigger to spew garbage at another person. There are commonplace words with more dispicable etymologies. Get your priorities in order, please.

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    Oh, come on. Don't be a tard.
    We can't do much about the situation in Japan, but I'll tell you that I don't endorse the use of the word "nigger" in any kind of sense or way. It's evil and I don't use it and I tell others to not use it, as well.
    But that doesn't mean we aren't entitled to persue our own goals of gender neutrality. To some, it's an insult and rightly so. This is a free world, after all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

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    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    You're clearly not paying attention at all.
    We can't do much about the situation in Japan, but I'll tell you that I don't endorse the use of the word "nigger" in any kind of sense or way. It's evil and I don't use it and I tell others to not use it, as well.
    I bet you do. Badgering rascists is importsnt because it educates society, and no one else brings about societal change than people. My point was that your being unnecessarily critical of people who just want to use current language correctly. Or maybe you'd rather write a letter to say, the Modern Language Association and urge them to introduce some new words, instead of badgering some programmers. If you really want to do anything about it.

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    I understood your point perfectly fine and my point was that you were being too overly critical against it.
    Why can we not have a gender neutral language? It's important to me, as well as others.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

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