Gender and Language

This is a discussion on Gender and Language within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; No, that's not right either. It should be neutral; neither man nor woman. Then it would be perfect....

  1. #61
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    No, that's not right either.
    It should be neutral; neither man nor woman. Then it would be perfect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    No, that's not right either.
    It should be neutral; neither man nor woman. Then it would be perfect.
    Ahh, so just kind then?
    How I need a drink, alcoholic in nature, after the heavy lectures involving quantum mechanics.

  3. #63
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Sometimes I tend to use "our kind" or such, but it's a mystery really... I don't know how to substitute it correctly all the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  4. #64
    Unregistered User Yarin's Avatar
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    >> No, and I don't like "mankind" either. If such, better use "humankind," which is much better, but not perfect.
    >> Sometimes I tend to use "our kind" or such, but it's a mystery really... I don't know how to substitute it correctly all the time.

    I don't see why you don't like "mankind". Man was made first, then the woman. So it only makes sence that they be indentifed in the same order.
    A class that doesn't overload all operators just isn't finished yet. -- SmugCeePlusPlusWeenie
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  5. #65
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Wtf?
    I absolutely hate those stupid kind of ridiculous claims.
    There is absolutely no proof whatsoever on whose gender was created first, and indeed, if they were indeed created at all. Or perhaps they evolved at the same time? No one knows and I will certainly not buy that stupid religious crap.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  6. #66
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Sometimes I tend to use "our kind" or such, but it's a mystery really... I don't know how to substitute it correctly all the time.
    But elysia, some people don't consider every member of the genus homo to be 'their kind'. Should we now bow to the radical beliefs of a minority just to avoid offending anyone?

    Offending people is not always a bad thing.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

  7. #67
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abachler View Post
    But elysia, some people don't consider every member of the genus homo to be 'their kind'. Should we now bow to the radical beliefs of a minority just to avoid offending anyone?
    Now that's certainly a strange claim. But I admit, I don't know a good substitute. Perhaps "out kind" isn't the best or, indeed, very good at all.

    Offending people is not always a bad thing.
    Since when is it good?
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  8. #68
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Since when is it good?
    When if forces the offended to consider the possibility of alternate viewpoints that may be just as or more valid for one. There are other reasons as well.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

  9. #69
    Unregistered User Yarin's Avatar
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    Wtf?
    I absolutely hate those stupid kind of ridiculous claims.
    There is absolutely no proof whatsoever on whose gender was created first, and indeed, if they were indeed created at all. Or perhaps they evolved at the same time? No one knows and I will certainly not buy that stupid religious crap.
    Religion is the backbone of everyone's opinion, and cannot be called crap.
    A class that doesn't overload all operators just isn't finished yet. -- SmugCeePlusPlusWeenie
    A year spent in artificial intelligence is enough to make one believe in God. -- Alan J. Perlis

  10. #70
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    IMHO, I have to agree with Elysia that relying on religion now to defend your stance now is intellectually bankrupt. However, Elysia is both unwilling to look at things from another point of view on this particular issue and very much addressing the wrong crowd. We should have stopped talking about this a while ago.

  11. #71
    Unregistered User Yarin's Avatar
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    Well, I brought up the wrong point, I really think male should be default because of tradition, not just religion.
    And I don't see how it's intellectually bankrupt. Please enlighten me.
    A class that doesn't overload all operators just isn't finished yet. -- SmugCeePlusPlusWeenie
    A year spent in artificial intelligence is enough to make one believe in God. -- Alan J. Perlis

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarin View Post
    Religion is the backbone of everyone's opinion
    That there is definetly crap...
    Die Religion, ist das Opium des Volkes

    edit:
    I really think male should be default because of tradition
    I agree with this though, it's called MANkind because that's the way it has always been, it has nothing to do with sexism or anything like that...
    How I need a drink, alcoholic in nature, after the heavy lectures involving quantum mechanics.

  13. #73
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    The reason there is no need for a new word in the English vocabulary to deal with this issue is because there is no such new word in the English vocabulary.

    Words in any language in the world are introduced by necessity and popularity. If there is the need for a new word, that word somehow becomes part of the popular vocabulary and when noticed and observed to be prevalent, it is added to the official language.

    Until then, any discussion on the likes of "I wish a word existed for" is an exercise in futility. Wishful thinking. Nothing more. It can't even be supported because of the simple fact, as I said before, if the word doesn't exist it is because we don't need it yet.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  14. #74
    The superhaterodyne twomers's Avatar
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    You know there's a point where PC just becomes ridiculous.

  15. #75
    pwns nooblars
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    Elysia, you are how old, 15?16? at least that is what your arguments seem. "I want everything perfect, I know the best way, I don't want anyone to be offended, btw religion is bullcrap" So you say you don't want to offend people by using the wrong gender in online discussion where it isn't commonly seen as a big deal. Then you take something that is close to peoples hearts and say it is crap?

    Neo1, yeah, I have heard that song too, and heard that before, Religion is the opium of the people, but even those who 'aren't religious' are religious about being non-religious and might as well be just another faction on the deity battlefield.

    In the end lets look at it this way, you all have your believes and recognize that other peoples believes exists, so one could figure that calling someone a pronoun that isn't the proper gender could just be someone who says he all the time unless they know for a fact it is a she. And that they mean no offence by it, so there should be none taken because it is a simple language trait of English and it isn't meant to insult people but rather to simplify communication. No real need to carry on in this fashion because in the end, neither side will win.

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