What company to bash..?

This is a discussion on What company to bash..? within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; > Haha, well... compare the GUI of Photoshop to Paint Shop Pro. PSP is much nicer, richer and a pleasure ...

  1. #46
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    > Haha, well... compare the GUI of Photoshop to Paint Shop Pro. PSP is much nicer, richer and a pleasure to work with while Photoshop's is... well, purely ugly.

    Hmm... you do know the differences between Photoshop and Paint Shop Pro, don't you? You can't really compare those two products. They have different target users.

    > So the program does its work well, and that's why it's the industry standard. But GUI and functionality are different things as we both know!

    Again... do take a look at Photoshop and do ask people who use it as a professional tool in a daily basis before you proceed any further.

    > I used to work a lot with incoming work before. Typically where we had to print their work. It turns out we a lot of trouble with stuff made with Adobe. The rest went mostly easy from what I can vaguely remember.

    It's a good thing you remember vaguely, because that's probably the result of selective memory.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  2. #47
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    Hmm... you do know the differences between Photoshop and Paint Shop Pro, don't you? You can't really compare those two products. They have different target users.

    Again... do take a look at Photoshop and do ask people who use it as a professional tool in a daily basis before you proceed any further.
    Perhaps you should enlighten me.

    It's a good thing you remember vaguely, because that's probably the result of selective memory.
    Regardless, it tells me that Adobe software is buggy or behaves unpredictably or is difficult to set up and use on other computers since the documents worked fine for those who made them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  3. #48
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    > Perhaps you should enlighten me.

    I can't because I couldn't draw a straight line with a ruler to save my life. As such image editing programs aren't really my forte. However, life happened to surround me with great artists both in family and close friends who would be quick on theirs fingers to do just that and enlighten you, I'm sure. Particularly since I've witnessed similar discussions before.

    And exactly because of that, I do advise you to inform yourself better. You'll see you are actually quiet wrong. Which is just fine. There's so much to learn when we learn we didn't know.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  4. #49
    Woof, woof! zacs7's Avatar
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    > And exactly because of that, I do advise you to inform yourself better. You'll see you are actually quiet wrong. Which is just fine. There's so much to learn when we learn we didn't know.
    Huh? You're the one who couldn't back your own argument

    No point arguing girls, seriously it doesn't go anywhere.

  5. #50
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    do read my post again
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  6. #51
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Haha, well... compare the GUI of Photoshop to Paint Shop Pro. PSP is much nicer, richer and a pleasure to work with while Photoshop's is... well, purely ugly.
    The GUI works, but it's an eyesore to look at, if you ask me
    So the program does its work well, and that's why it's the industry standard. But GUI and functionality are different things as we both know!
    This is 100&#37; about the taste. I searched Google images for PSP screenshots and I'd say Photoshop totally pwns it. I don't even have any suggestions how to improve Photoshop's GUI, it just feels so comfortable to use.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    OH, but I see Adobe's software equal to Microsoft's. Buggy.
    I used to work a lot with incoming work before. Typically where we had to print their work. It turns out we a lot of trouble with stuff made with Adobe. The rest went mostly easy from what I can vaguely remember.
    I hate this overbloated "it's buggy, it's buggy" talk. I have seen no bugs in any Adobe software, no crashes/bugs whatsoever! And so for Microsoft. I have had NO BSODs on XP except for the time I made a buggy driver. I don't even remember any crashes. Explorer.exe seems to crash because of buggy shell extensions (explorer only crashes for people with uber-mega buggy themes or shell addons), but it hasn't crashed on my CPU last few years. And an OS is such a big project that if their first release would be bug-free I'd suspect they hired aliens to code.

    Why whine about companies? Does it make you feel better? LIVE AND LET OTHERS LIVE!
    Last edited by maxorator; 02-02-2008 at 06:25 AM.
    "The Internet treats censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore

  7. #52
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Then you must be quite lucky since I've run into quite a few bugs from both products.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  8. #53
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    I have to agree with max. What's this thing with bugs anyway, Elysia? I mean, I agree with the general principle that buggy software and payed software shouldn't go along. However, it's also a fact that software has become increasingly complex, software development teams have become increasingly bigger and harder to manage, the market has become increasingly demanding which forces many companies to push deadlines and adopt more and more the "patch ideology".

    Maybe this deserved a different thread. However I cannot conceive my position as a programmer - even if an hobbyist one as it is - without a different, more tolerant eye towards bugs.

    All in all, I still believe we, as consumers, are the ones to blame. Really. Not the companies we criticize. The market evolved so much the past 20 years that not only bugs are accepted as a lesser evil, but even more important, for the most part they no longer can be used as a measure of software quality.

    Quality, as I see it regarding software development, is a measure of many things these days ranging from application performance to user support with all things in between. But maybe the most important measure of quality is the test of time; that is, can I really consider of low quality an operating system that is used all over the world by millions of people?

    You can argue this idea is dangerous. I agree, but really, do you think Microsoft, for instance, or Adbobe, are not walking on their toes anymore? Heck, they are!

    But I still think the most important argument is how do I position myself exactly as a software developer if I develop a strong intolerance towards bugs?
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  9. #54
    Ethernal Noob
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    The thread op left a long time ago Lol.

  10. #55
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neo1 View Post
    I disagree, i think the Xbox is an awesome piece of kit!
    I think you mispelled ........, this is a common mistake when people first switch to a dvorak keyboard.

    The OP was just asking for a company to bash for a french assignment. Personally, I would use soem company that noone expected, kind of a tongue in cheeck bash. Something like a marshmellow company for making rascist marshmellows (white only). Something that demonstrates a command of the language not only for literal discussion but also for satirical diatribe.
    Last edited by abachler; 02-02-2008 at 10:53 AM.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

  11. #56
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    I have to agree with max. What's this thing with bugs anyway, Elysia? I mean, I agree with the general principle that buggy software and payed software shouldn't go along. However, it's also a fact that software has become increasingly complex, software development teams have become increasingly bigger and harder to manage, the market has become increasingly demanding which forces many companies to push deadlines and adopt more and more the "patch ideology".

    Maybe this deserved a different thread. However I cannot conceive my position as a programmer - even if an hobbyist one as it is - without a different, more tolerant eye towards bugs.

    All in all, I still believe we, as consumers, are the ones to blame. Really. Not the companies we criticize. The market evolved so much the past 20 years that not only bugs are accepted as a lesser evil, but even more important, for the most part they no longer can be used as a measure of software quality.

    Quality, as I see it regarding software development, is a measure of many things these days ranging from application performance to user support with all things in between. But maybe the most important measure of quality is the test of time; that is, can I really consider of low quality an operating system that is used all over the world by millions of people?

    You can argue this idea is dangerous. I agree, but really, do you think Microsoft, for instance, or Adbobe, are not walking on their toes anymore? Heck, they are!

    But I still think the most important argument is how do I position myself exactly as a software developer if I develop a strong intolerance towards bugs?
    Lesser bugs are one thing and bigger bugs are an entirely different thing.
    When a document suddenly prints as greyscale for no valid option, you haven't selected it and the document itself is in color, then it's no longer a minor bug. Yes, this has happened to me, and since I frustrated and could find no solution. I gave up. In the end, it wasn't I who solved it. These kind of bugs are plaguing Adobe software.
    Is that acceptable? No!
    I can accept the fact that as software become bigger and harder to manage, more bugs slip through, perhaps in one version, they could actually try to focus more time on squishing the small, annoying bugs. Heck, there have been very obvious bugs in Microsoft Office since 2000 or even earlier, and they have yet to be fixed! That is just not right. I'd gladly pay some more money for software that works as it should and does not annoy me with those small lesser bugs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  12. #57
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    When a document suddenly prints as greyscale for no valid option, you haven't selected it and the document itself is in color, then it's no longer a minor bug.
    I used to own a printer like this. Buy a printer that can keep color and black ink in one carriage, so that you don't forget to swap them.

  13. #58
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Wasn't the printer's fault, though. I believe it was greyscale in print preview.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  14. #59
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    When a document suddenly prints as greyscale for no valid option, you haven't selected it and the document itself is in color, then it's no longer a minor bug. Yes, this has happened to me, and since I frustrated and could find no solution. I gave up. In the end, it wasn't I who solved it. These kind of bugs are plaguing Adobe software.
    Acrobat Reader? I somehow doubt in the part "for no valid option".
    Quick Googleing: "We have Adobe Reader 8. You can go to "File" - "Print" - it shows the name of the plotter, click on the "Properties" button beside it; click on the "Color" tab, there you can select "Print in Grayscale" and from there "Black Ink only" or what I prefer to do when color might be an issue, is select "Monochrome Graphics". It then prints black on white paper. "

    So many different options to set it greyscale...
    "The Internet treats censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore

  15. #60
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ! Elysia's Avatar
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    Not Reader...
    Can't remember what it's called.
    But another "bug" is that Adobe Dreamweaver CS3 eats 50&#37; CPU all the time it's active. All the time. And for no reason either. Even if it's just idle, it eats 50% CPU. One full core.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

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