Human brain and programing

This is a discussion on Human brain and programing within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; >> I would assume it's jpg or something - something lossy. We don't remember images like that. We remeber objects ...

  1. #16
    Unregistered User Yarin's Avatar
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    >> I would assume it's jpg or something - something lossy.

    We don't remember images like that. We remeber objects in the picture, like that mug, laptop, key, fan, 3 books, ect. And when we recall the images, we just put those objects in the right location to form our somewhat complete image.
    A class that doesn't overload all operators just isn't finished yet. -- SmugCeePlusPlusWeenie
    A year spent in artificial intelligence is enough to make one believe in God. -- Alan J. Perlis

  2. #17
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    and how do we remember how those objects look like?

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  3. #18
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by h_howee View Post
    and how do we remember how those objects look like?
    Mostly through sensory memory. All five senses are in on it, and it pretty much can kick in on contact.

    The encoding step of human memory is still quite a mystery. In fact I don't think that they even have any proof that the brain encodes anything in the cryptographic sense (like a jpeg) or like ticks in your back pocket, but it's the simplest model we have to explain things like working memory and forgetfulness.

    It really has to do with what parts of your brain do what, how healthy the brain is, and how often you use that knowledge. Your brain is essentially a ball of tangled wires that can only prune or rewire its parts. And it's quite lazy, it only remembers what you need or want to know.

    I remember an example from a class textbook. London cab drivers have learned and recalled so many parts of the city that when they compared their brains with other people using imaging technology, the area that was stimulated by things like maps or giving directions was so much larger and more active than the others. So, and this is probably a bit more than specualtion on my part, but in the case of London's cab drivers, the neurons probably wired and rewired that area very effectively a few times to streamline brainwave activity to that area from the senses.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarin View Post
    Thus the dawn of The Matrix and Borg.

    Unless you belive that we where created rather than "evolved", your making your self look stupid by saying "the human brain is a machine". Webster's definition of machine is "any mechanical or electrical device that transmits or modifies energy to perform or assist in the performance of human tasks". Device is the subject word here, and it's defenition is "an instrumentality invented for a particular purpose". As you can see, a machine must be invented, it can't evolve.
    You completely missed the whole point of that post and instead got wrapped up in semantics. Be it a "machine", "heuristic" or "algorithm", the human brain takes a set of inputs, processes them, and creates a set of outputs; that process is the general definition of a "machine" or "computer". Call it what you (or Webster) may, the fact of the matter is the human brain still does exactly what any other machine, computer, program, algorithm, heuristic, set of functions, does: for each set of inputs it uniquely maps to them a set of outputs.

    p.s. even if we go by your definition, you still appear to be foolishly grasping at straws since it can be trivially argued that the brain is an electrical device that assists in human tasks and has indeed been invented, by a biological process known as evolution.

  5. #20
    aoeuhtns
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    Quote Originally Posted by @nthony
    for each set of inputs it uniquely maps to them a set of outputs.
    You can say this about any physical system.

    I think it is concludable that (even though today it may be better than a computer) the human brain is ineffecient for its weight-to-size ratio
    Maybe your brain is. Weight-to-size ratio? Maybe you mean density? You shouldn't declare something to be inefficient without first deciding what would constitute an 'efficient' brain. Otherwise, you're manipulating symbols without any meaning, but hey, that sums up your entire post.
    There are 10 types of people in this world, those who cringed when reading the beginning of this sentence and those who salivated to how superior they are for understanding something as simple as binary.

  6. #21
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    My point exactly, the brain is no more "mystical" than any other system, mechanical, electrical, biologicial or other.

    The firing of neurons rely on a chemical process which is no where near as fast as electrical transferral. It has been shown in the past that larger amounts of brain matter oft equals greater intelligence. Even if the human brain were to remain at size continually, following the trend of microelectronics soon to become nanoelectronics, you can clearly see a reduction of mass/weight/size with an increase in capability. If this trend is to continue into the times of which I speak, technologically enhanced or replaced "brains" will have more effeciency of biological ones.

    As I said within my first post, that was but a rough outline of some theories so it may appear that I am jumping to conclusions, but I am assuming they you are aware of the relative research and/or facts that pertain to the "conclusions" I draw. If/when I complete my final paper you can request a full copy with every claim accredited.

    p.s. Weight-to-size in the context of Earth is nothing more than a constant multiple of density. If you'd like to hear my thoeries on intelligence in space, you can wait for the paper, in the meantime, maybe you should apply the same concepts on "symbol manipulation" to your own post.

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    In my personal opinion,
    Humans have come as far as possible in evolution, and technology is the only thing that continues to evolve in this world, with the exception of animals(not humans), therefore, the only way for humans to continue evolving, is to become one with the technology.
    Example : The Borg of Star Trek.
    So therefore, we should all support the cybernetic research group (if there is one).
    I think, that at one time, there will be a device created that will link directly to the human brain, and, using the cellular phone network, will be able to relay thoughts to other people wearing this device, creating actual telepathy!
    Actually I had a pretty good story about this...hm, I lost it. anyway, this will continue for as long as technology continues to advance, until the famous paradox :

    "If necessity is the mother of invention, what will power our ingenuity when all our needs have been satisfied."
    The sensible part of the post ends here
    ____________________________
    Then, the Earth itself will retaliate, as the lifestream churns out WEAPONs, massive monsters which purpose is to cleanse the Earth of the "cancer"(this relates to Humans, as said in The Matrix)
    However, war will be LONG GONE, and the new missiles will be untested, therefore, a masive Terraton bomb will annihaliate a massive portion of the surface of the Earth, revealing the Gaia within.
    The Lifestream will be forced to summon Omega, and it will fuse with the Gaia, the life of the Earth will depart into the cosmos, being tricked that the Earth is doomed, leaving a desolate and lifeless planet, AND ONLY THEN WILL THE FEW HUMANS REMAINING LEARN TO RESPECT FINAL FANTASY! Which, for the second time, will truly be "final". Then then cloud of nuclear radiation created by the bomb will begin to pass across the Earth, seconds before the planet breaks into 3 parts, with no living tree roots to hold it together. The atmosphere will dissipate, as the gravity has long gone with the splitting of the Earth, the moon's now superior-to Earth's gravity draws the Earth(s) and the moon together and, in a massive crunch, the mon colony is obliterated by the collision.
    Here ends the retardedness, along with the human race.
    __________________________________________________ __
    erhm, off topic am I?
    sorry.

  8. #23
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    > Humans have come as far as possible in evolution

    I get the feeling that people are only saying this out of haste. Mutations still occur in newborns. Some would state that these types of things aren't helpful (a sixth finger, a tail), so that is why nature attempts to eradicate them, but it does experiment from time to time. Just because humans can't mutate something new and useful as fast as we can make something useful doesn't mean nature forgot about biological change.You won't see it in life often because doctors take the time to surgically remove these things early in their lives, mostly due to concern for the child's social development, I believe.

    If you want an example of biological change that you can see, have you had your wisdom teeth removed? They were useful once upon a time, but our mouths have become smaller than they used to be, because our bodies are adjusting to how we eat.

    I guess I can only say I'm proud to see such enthusiasm for advancement in neuroscience, or supporting applications of technology in medicine, but lets not get ahead of ourselves. Be somewhat serious. I'd hate for people to support these things for stupid reasons, e.g. basking in science fiction as if it were the next science fact. What is so fascinating about the borg?
    Last edited by whiteflags; 08-26-2007 at 11:41 PM.

  9. #24
    Cat without Hat CornedBee's Avatar
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    A sixth finger is removed for several reasons. There's social status, of course - it's just weird. Often, however, the finger doesn't work properly anyway. A class mate of mine was born with two thumbs on one hand, but only one worked. The other was merely a nuisance. So they removed the working one and "rewired" nerves and sinews so that the other one worked. (That was due to the placement of the fingers.)
    Or just imagine all the small inconveniences. Try buying gloves ...
    All the buzzt!
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    "There is not now, nor has there ever been, nor will there ever be, any programming language in which it is the least bit difficult to write bad code."
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by citizen View Post
    I get the feeling that people are only saying this out of haste. Mutations still occur in newborns. Some would state that these types of things aren't helpful (a sixth finger, a tail), so that is why nature attempts to eradicate them
    Nature hates it when you anthropomorphize her

  11. #26
    and the Hat of Clumsiness GanglyLamb's Avatar
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    It's funny most people will see things like a sixth finger abnormal and a problem to being socially accepted (thus having it removed).
    While others have a perfect body (as in 2 feet, 2 hands etc...) and decide to have surgery to make them feel better (for example transexuals...), causing them to be rejected from society (or at least a huge part of society).

    I wonder how the world would look like if animals could do the same (for example a duck that underwent surgery to get huge wings so it could compete with vultures...).

    Of course the duck would go to a duck doctor (duh!)

  12. #27
    Cat without Hat CornedBee's Avatar
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    Humans have always seen that which they are not used to as abnormal. Consider the first reaction whenever one race encountered another. They considered them either less worthy or supernatural.

    And I hate to say it, but six fingers are abnormal. They're a genetic or development defect, a very visible one. Since at our most basic instinct level we still strive for survival of the fittest and therefore association with the fittest (be it companionship or breeding), we will have an instinctive reaction against those with such obvious defects.

    That's not to say that such a reaction is right. It just is.
    All the buzzt!
    CornedBee

    "There is not now, nor has there ever been, nor will there ever be, any programming language in which it is the least bit difficult to write bad code."
    - Flon's Law

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