Told ya so...

This is a discussion on Told ya so... within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Isn't there Farcry and Callofduty for the Wii already? Plus, I heard that you can hack the wiimote to use ...

  1. #31
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    Isn't there Farcry and Callofduty for the Wii already?

    Plus, I heard that you can hack the wiimote to use it on your computer...
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  2. #32
    Supermassive black hole cboard_member's Avatar
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    Yes and yes. I've only played CoD3 on the Wii, and I'll never touch another first person shooter on this console again. I found the controls impossible, especially the jittery aiming.
    Good class architecture is not like a Swiss Army Knife; it should be more like a well balanced throwing knife.

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  3. #33
    l'Anziano DavidP's Avatar
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    The problem is, it's no longer launch day. People expect to be able to walk into a shop and buy what they want. The PS3 is available. So our options are currently paying ~£450 ($924 at today's rate) for a PS3 or trying to pay £180 for a console we can't have.

    Yes, their marketing is clearly superior.
    It's a simple concept called supply and demand. You learn about it in any economics class, but since you obviously haven't taken one, here is a link:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand

    They are using this to their advantage...keeping the demand high.

    PS3 and 360 is a traditional console with focus on graphics and sound quality, and versatility, like being able to play HD-DVD and synching with your PC and stuff, while the Wii, is all about Gameplay, and new ways to freshen up old concepts.
    Has this become our definition of a traditional came console?! I object! That is not my definition at all! Did the Nintendo, SuperNes, N64, Sega Genesis, or Atari (all noted as traditional game consoles) focus on graphics and sound quality, and the ability to play HD-DVDs? I don't think so!

    A traditional game console is a game console that focuses on gameplay! That is why everyone loves to go back to their 8-bit Nintendo games! The gameplay is amazing!

    I don't consider the PS3 a traditional game console. I don't want all that extra crap to play HD-DVDs and such. I could care less. Personally, if I want to play a movie, I will buy a regular DVD (or rent one from RedBox). I will then go home and play that movie on my $30 DVD player which I bought from WalMart. I could care less about paying Sony an extra butt-load of cash for their Blu-Ray technology. I don't want to pay out of my pocket for what they claim to be better graphics. If I want good graphics, I will play Doom 3 on my PC. PC is far better graphics then any game console anyways.

    Nintendo got it right. By my definition of a "traditional game console", I choose to call it the Nintendo Wii, because the Nintendo Wii focuses on gameplay! That's what makes a game console good!

    Now...when it comes to innovation, the Nintendo Wii is also the most innovative! Traditional and innovative? Indeed...it is the best. PS3 is a bunch of crap.

    The wii costs like ½ of aPS3, but has very poor performance. The people that would by a Wii, is essentially the same kind of people that would buy a Mac (Yay, sweeping generalizations!).
    What do you consider poor performance? Are you one of those guys that has to have blazingly amazing graphics or else you can't live? I'm sorry.

    Oh...and by the way...Macs are good computers (that's just a side note).

    I don't buy the "our graphics are better" line of defense any more. Graphics are nothing more than pictures to look at. Graphics are boring. Give me an actual game to play, with challenges a bit more than "hit the buttons in this order", "shoot them in the head", or "talk to everyone in the game". (Which is why Nethack continues to be awesome, while Madden '05 is in the bargain bin.)
    I echo that.

    I guarantee the Hyundai Accent sells better than the BMW M6, but does that make it a better car?
    It's a different concept here, however. Even though sales are a big factor, we are also taking innovation. If you want to talk about sheer processing power, then of course, PS3 is the more powerful console. Nobody can deny that....but does that make it better? Not necessarily.

    I think the Wii is just a system everybody will buy, but nobody will play. Something that you only use when a lot of people are over.
    I think that's a good thing, personally. It's unhealthy to sit at home all day by yourself and play Halo. I have a good friend who got a 0.0 GPA one semester in college because it's literally all he did. We can draw a few conclusions from that. #1: my friend probably needs to learn self control, and so do all other Halo/Counter-Strike/World-of-Warcraft addicts. #2: an addicting video game isn't necessarily a good thing.

    Nintendo wants people to have fun, and be active while playing. This encourages groups of people to play, and thus have social interaction. That is good. I am not saying that the Nintendo Wii cannot be played by oneself, because it surely can...but Nintendo wants people to have a social life...which I think is a good thing. I, for one, don't want to waste my life.

    I do have a problem with Microsoft and Sony. Reach
    into your bag of tired ol' internet cliches and call it fanboyism
    or whatever the hell you want. But both companies lack even
    the slightest amount of creativity, originality or even insight.
    I echo that.

    If you're a developer and you want to release a game using the best technology, to test your skills, to release a game with an ambitious story, you won't go to wii.
    Excuse me?! So if I want my game to have a good story, according to you, I can't use a game console that has a little less processing power? Darn...I guess I will just have to throw in the towel and admit that all those amazingly cool NES games just had crappy gameplay and story lines....because no game that runs on a console with less power than the PS3 can have an ambitious story.

    If I want to "test my skills", as you say, then I will program to the best of my ability, and write algorithms and code that is efficient and innovative. I can do this whether I write games for the Wii or the PS3. I think I will go for the Wii.

    Do you think you can play, say Quake 4 (since you mentioned it), taking full advantage of this type of controller?
    Actually I think that would be loads of fun.

    So maybe you don't want to get off your butt and move around, that's your prerogative. But I think introducing more physical activity into video game playing IS innovative.
    I agree 100%.

    All right, now lets look at some hard facts:

    According to Wikipedia the Wii has sold 8.6 million units, while the PS3 is trailing at 3.9. The Xbox360, with its 1 year head start, is at 11 million.

    The Nintendo DS has sold over 40 million units, while the PSP trails at about 25 million units.

    Also from Wikipedia:
    On June 4, 2007, it was announced that the Wii was outselling the PlayStation 3 by a five-to-one margin in Japan.[51]. As of July 3 2007, this has increased to a margin of six to one.
    Also from Wikipedia:
    Conversely, the PS3 was given the number-eight spot on PC World magazine’s list of “The Top 21 Tech Screwups of 2006,” where it was criticized for being “Late, Expensive, and Incompatible.”[147] GamesRadar ranked the PS3 as the top item in a feature about game-related PR disasters, asking how Sony managed to "take one of the most anticipated game consoles of all time and — within the space of a year — turn it into a hate object reviled by the entire internet," but added that despite its problems the console had "untapped potential."
    Now, from the Washington Post:
    Ken Kutaragi, the man who led Sony Corp. into the game console business, will step down as chairman and CEO of Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI), the company said late Thursday...That move was viewed by some analysts as a response to several missteps in the launch of the PlayStation 3. The launch date was delayed and the console was widely criticized as being too expensive...
    Now, from MSNBC:
    Kutaragi's most recent brainchild, the PlayStation 3 console, came out in November but was marred by embarrassing production shortages and a $600 price tag that some Sony fans said was too steep. For the past several months, Sony has resorted to giving away free game titles and other marketing gimmicks to spur sales.

    Sony has also struggled to expand beyond the young, male demographic of so-called "hardcore" gamers. Investors have been grumbling for several quarters that Sony has failed to attract women, young children and older gamers to its products, and its market share has shrunk as a result.
    According to NexGenWars:

    51% of consumers pick the Wii.
    19.8% pick the PS3
    29.1% pick the Xbox 360

    NexGenWars also reports the following sales:

    Xbox360: 11.59 million
    Wii: 9.05 million
    PS3: 3.85 million
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown
    Arguing on the internet is like running in the special Olympics, even if you win you are still retarded
    Word.

  5. #35
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brewbuck View Post
    Basically you're admitting that you prefer to sit on your ass. And then you turn that into some kind of strike against Nintendo.
    Basically you are right. I do prefer to sit on my ass playing these games. But as you said, that's my prerrogative. It would be hardly a good thing to use that as an argument against. That wasn't my intention.

    What I sincerely doubt, and that's my argument which I explained meakly due to lack of time, is that this type of controller has a future in all but the most specialized type of games.

    The Wii controller is not an isloted accident. The technology isn't new either. It has been shown on several fairs and other technological gathering places. Companies have shown some interest. The game industry too. However, as far as the latter is concerned, the most visible argument used in some of the documentaries I've seen is that it is hard to put into practice in most modern games (the ones most played by current gamers, strategy, action shooters and RPGs). This limits seriously the usefullness of such a controller. It may make sense only as a addon product. Not as a flagship technology as the Wii controller tried to be.

    EDIT: In other words, the Wii controller is a novelty. The right thing for an unprepared market of gadget lovers. It will soon probably fall out of use and the gadget lovers will move on to new more interesting and useful (or not) things the builders will throw at them. Useful technology is the one that retains its value after the initial crazed has passed.
    Last edited by Mario F.; 07-25-2007 at 11:21 AM.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  6. #36
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    You can play your wii and ds games all you want, but the most you're going to get from them are bite sized but simple mini to non games. The few "epic" games you will get will be cookie cutter RPG's that are in pale comparison to what can be found on other consoles.

    People act as though graphical advancements are somehow unnatural to game development. Even in the days of SNES and N64 was nintendo boasting about it's visual quality over it's competitors. Games looking better as the generation went on is a natural progression of gaming consoles. Nintendo's doing it now, only they are doing it slower because as much money as they are making they are a cheap company who does not want to spend the same amount of money to spring for visual upgrades as their competitors. If the price of current tech were cheaper, they'd buy it, and fanboys will eat crow for their hypocrisy.

    My last point. Remember when nintendo published and developed games which all the fanboys called new and innovative...did you not sit on your ass and play them? Did you not have a controller (however badly designed) it was and like it because it demonstrated use of the technology and had great gameplay without an extra?

    Nintendo waggle ended with the Powerglove

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F. View Post
    However, as far as the latter is concerned, the most visible argument used in some of the documentaries I've seen is that it is hard to put into practice in most modern games (the ones most played by current gamers, strategy, action shooters and RPGs).
    This is an absurd argument. Assuming Starcraft or Civilization is an accurate representation of strategy games, little more is needed other than a pointing device. A simple control layout can use the nunchuk for camera movements and the remote for pointing, selecting, and clicking. I haven't seen any RPG that would require much more than that either. The controllers seem quite practical for action shooters as well.

    Basically, take an xBox controller, break it in half, and replace the left joystick with controller movement. I would agree that the button layout makes the use of several buttons on the remote awkward at best, but by no means does it follow that the entire setup is a poor choice for controllers.
    If I did your homework for you, then you might pass your class without learning how to write a program like this. Then you might graduate and get your degree without learning how to write a program like this. You might become a professional programmer without knowing how to write a program like this. Someday you might work on a project with me without knowing how to write a program like this. Then I would have to do you serious bodily harm. - Jack Klein

  8. #38
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    The Wii is very market focussed. The PS3 may be lagging in the console market, but it has other markets, whereas the Wii is pretty much just a game console. There are companies using the PS3 to analyze MRI data, which will bring the cost of an MRI down so that even clinics will start to have one. The Wii is a toy for children, the PS3 is a tool. Trying to say one is better than the other is like comparing apples and sledgehammers. In the specific application of gaming, the PS3 definately is out of the running. People who spend $600 on a piece of gaming hardware dont buy consoles, they buy computers. Sony once again completely missed the american market for consoles. The majority of console gamers in the US are either children or the low income labor force. Kids have a big say in which console to buy, but with a $350 price difference, I doubt that it can override the voice of their parents wallet. The parents who have $600 to plunk down on a piece of tech for their kids, will most likely just spring for a computer, which is a lot more functional than a console, and cheaper to keep upgraded.

    From a technical standpoint, the PS3 is a far superior product, but Sony priced it out of its market niche. If they were $250 like the Wii, noone would buy the Wii. In fact, we would probably have a cluster of them in the office for crunching numbers. At $600, i can buy rackmount servers to crunch my numbers, and I dont need some proprietary compiler to write code for them. Their application in MRI makes use of their powerful GPU. Its cheaper to buy a PS3 than it is to buy a rackmount server then add a high end GPU to get the floating point crunching power. Sony needs to stop masturbating over their theory of a high end console market, the high end console market is called the commodity computer market.
    Last edited by abachler; 07-26-2007 at 10:24 AM.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

  9. #39
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    Yeah, there is also people who buy PS3 for folding.

    But as an individual, who will buy this? Who would buy a console to analyze MRI data at home?

    Sure it can run linux, but so does all of the computers. I am not saying PS3 is not a superior product, but it does not mean anything if you are talking to the gamers that it can run MRI data. I personally would want a PS3 at my office though since we are using a $5000 computer for 3d cardial simulations that probably a PS3 can do better, but my boss would say no cuz it doesn't look good in the office.

    And like you said, if people have enough money to buy a PS3, they could look at PC gaming too, since at least the parents can use it after their kids finished with their games.

    As for the controllers, the controllers for x360 and ps3 got to be the most practical no less, thats why they are using it again and again. But as for epic games are concern, thats still up to the developers. Developers don't based on the controller it uses for the games, they based on the market shares on the console to see if it is profitible. If more consoles in the market, more games would be produced for it. I am not saying the Wii has a better controller, I am saying that I would pick that controller for the reasons that I need a breath of fresh air. I have start using ps1 style controllers for like 10 years now and it is just boring that it is the same old design again and again. That doesn't mean I am gonna buy a Wii though, as the games are still not very attractive for me and I don't really play that much games anymore.
    Firyace
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  10. #40
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    If you are focusing on the game controller beign boring, then perhaps its the games that are boring, not the controller. Look at computers, they have been using the same controllers now for decades, because they work.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahluka View Post
    Yes and yes. I've only played CoD3 on the Wii, and I'll never touch another first person shooter on this console again. I found the controls impossible, especially the jittery aiming.
    That's kinda lame. CoD3 was one of the earliest titles for the Wii.
    Metroid Prime 3's controls are getting amazing reviews; as the
    developer has actually had some time to refine them. The
    Wii control system is way more intuitive for FPS control than
    the dual analog system. Or, at least as the potential to.

    http://www.gametrailers.com/player/21802.html

    Now tell me that doesn't look awesome...

    ...actually don't tell me that, because then I'll call you a liar.'

    Man, just thinkin' 'bout makin' the morph ball jump gets me
    excited.

    Oh man, even the graphics rule. It's hard to notice, but
    sometimes you can see Samus' reflection in her visor. Sweet.
    Last edited by Cheeze-It; 08-05-2007 at 07:20 AM.
    Staying away from General.

  12. #42
    Supermassive black hole cboard_member's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethic View Post
    That's kinda lame. CoD3 was one of the earliest titles for the Wii.
    Metroid Prime 3's controls are getting amazing reviews; as the
    developer has actually had some time to refine them. The
    Wii control system is way more intuitive for FPS control than
    the dual analog system. Or, at least as the potential to.

    http://www.gametrailers.com/player/21802.html

    Now tell me that doesn't look awesome...

    ...actually don't tell me that, because then I'll call you a liar.'

    Man, just thinkin' 'bout makin' the morph ball jump gets me
    excited.

    Oh man, even the graphics rule. It's hard to notice, but
    sometimes you can see Samus' reflection in her visor. Sweet.
    Awesome
    I agree with the intuitiveness - it seems the CoD3 developers just wanked it up, or maybe I'm just too picky (I noticed nobody else has this gripe, or they're keeping quiet about it).
    Good class architecture is not like a Swiss Army Knife; it should be more like a well balanced throwing knife.

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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahluka View Post
    Awesome
    I agree with the intuitiveness - it seems the CoD3 developers just wanked it up, or maybe I'm just too picky (I noticed nobody else has this gripe, or they're keeping quiet about it).
    Agree with the CoD3 wankyness; I was just trying to keep from posting a redundant comment.
    If I did your homework for you, then you might pass your class without learning how to write a program like this. Then you might graduate and get your degree without learning how to write a program like this. You might become a professional programmer without knowing how to write a program like this. Someday you might work on a project with me without knowing how to write a program like this. Then I would have to do you serious bodily harm. - Jack Klein

  14. #44
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    For those of you complaining about controlling FPS
    games on the Wii, well... boo to you. Metroid Prime 3
    just came out and it's freaking awesome. Better than
    dual analog control by a billion times.

    In your face, Halo!
    Staying away from General.

  15. #45
    Supermassive black hole cboard_member's Avatar
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    I can't wait till it's out here - wikipedia says October
    I'm definitely going to have to sell something to be able to afford it though.
    More 's
    Good class architecture is not like a Swiss Army Knife; it should be more like a well balanced throwing knife.

    - Mike McShaffry

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