an intersting arguement

This is a discussion on an intersting arguement within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; no firewall!!! thats like going freefalling without a parachute. you should always be behind a firewall. Wargames servers are great ...

  1. #16
    Hamster without a wheel iain's Avatar
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    no firewall!!!

    thats like going freefalling without a parachute.

    you should always be behind a firewall.

    Wargames servers are great - they are basically set up as sacrificial servers to which you attempt to gain access(sometimes to complete a particular hacking task or sometimes just to get in)

    I agree with ken - dont become a tool. learn how to get in with as few tools as possible - netstat and telnet are two of your best friends

    If you start hacking remember the golden rules
    *Always use a firewall
    *only stay on the network or remote computer as long as you need to.
    *dont destroy - its pointless
    *report security problems to the admin when you leave
    *use an ip anonymizer
    *enjoy it


    _
    I am not a hacker, i am a network explorer.
    Monday - what a way to spend a seventh of your life

  2. #17
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    Originally posted by Edge
    hooking up to a server run by hackers sounds like an invitation to disaster to me, especially if your not using a firewall.
    That's what I was thinking, just finished downloading ZA Personal now. Or I could connect through my redhat box...

  3. #18
    Banned maes's Avatar
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    Tell me something, what is so "cool" about hacking or that other thing: making a virus or a trojan horse.
    I just don't get it. (I'm not talking about wargames server here).
    I would use my knowledge about tcp/ip and sockets for constructive reasons, keeping hackers out.
    An other thing. You're all programers here, did any of you ever make any spyware and released it on the web? if so, why?
    From a post (by Atepfmh)on iain's website
    they do not realise that most hackers develop into being security professionals and are the furture of computer protection against hackers.
    So you have to be on the bad site first?

    From a post (by Atepfmh)on iain's website
    they provide millions of jobs globally for virus scanner authors, firewall authors
    Lets all create some virii and start hacking-> No more uninployment


    Am I the only one here that doesn't like hackers?
    Last edited by maes; 01-20-2002 at 02:29 PM.
    SVG is the future

  4. #19
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    they provide millions of jobs globally for virus scanner authors, firewall authors
    It makes you wonder if most virus's are actually released by companys making virus protection software.

  5. #20
    Hamster without a wheel iain's Avatar
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    firstly - i would like to distance myself form those quotes above - they were made by a guest on my site not myself.

    I dont mind hackers - hackers dont do damage - they look around networks and report problems.

    However i do have problems with crackers (people who hack and then cause damage), virus writers, trojan writers and the like. Most of these are kids who have a few tools.
    Monday - what a way to spend a seventh of your life

  6. #21
    31173 h4x0r gnu-ehacks's Avatar
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    Maes, I think you have the wrong view on hackers. Although there are many(MAY I REPEAT MANY) hackers that just do totally bad stuff, there are also many that do good. I agree with the fact that virii and trojan horse writers all are stupid, but they should not be representing hackers.
    What will people say if they hear that I'm a Jesus freak?
    What will people do if they find that it's true?
    I don't really care if they label me a Jesus freak, there is no disguising the truth!

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  7. #22
    Banned maes's Avatar
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    >>firstly - i would like to distance myself form those quotes above - they were made by a guest on my site not myself.

    Yes, I know that. I just wanted to say wher I got it from. Otherwise people would say:"huh ... where did that came from
    (I'll edit my post)
    SVG is the future

  8. #23
    Just one more wrong move. -KEN-'s Avatar
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    Heh, maes you have hacker and cracker switched around in your head somewhere...

    hackers don't do the damage...crackers and kiddies do...

    actually, programmers are also considered hackers...

  9. #24
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    Originally posted by maes
    >>firstly - i would like to distance myself form those quotes above - they were made by a guest on my site not myself.

    Yes, I know that. I just wanted to say wher I got it from. Otherwise people would say:"huh ... where did that came from
    (I'll edit my post)
    Hey, I'm going to be strictly white-hat.

  10. #25
    Hamster without a wheel iain's Avatar
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    i support white-hat hackers completely - it is harmless fun and benefits the administrator.

    though some sysads still dont like it and will mail you abuse for informing them of security problems.
    Monday - what a way to spend a seventh of your life

  11. #26
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    hehehehe.
    Those silly overpaid admins.

  12. #27
    Banned maes's Avatar
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    >>Maes, I think you have the wrong view on hackers
    If you break in to a system that isn't yours or you don't belong there, why is that a good thing. But like I said, I don't mean the wargame servers. If you're allowed to try and get in that is fine, if the admin says you can try, go a head and have fun. But if the admin doesn't want that: stay out, don't try.

    Hackers get in secured networks but don't do any damage right?
    What if this hacker looks at some confidential data like creditcard numbers.

    We had a 'hacker' in Belgium and he called himself RedAttack. He got in to a bank(I think it was a bank, not sure) and he published some accounts to let the admins know that it wasn't safe, what if you were an owner of such an account?

    If I was an admin, I wouldn't want any one on my network that doesn't have to be there.
    SVG is the future

  13. #28
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    Originally posted by maes

    We had a 'hacker' in Belgium and he called himself RedAttack. He got in to a bank(I think it was a bank, not sure) and he published some accounts to let the admins know that it wasn't safe, what if you were an owner of such an account?
    Then you're screwed

    White-hat = good, helpful hacker.
    Black-hat = evil, illegal, malicious hacker (as seen in the movies).

  14. #29
    Just one more wrong move. -KEN-'s Avatar
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    Originally posted by maes
    >>Maes, I think you have the wrong view on hackers
    If you break in to a system that isn't yours or you don't belong there, why is that a good thing. But like I said, I don't mean the wargame servers. If you're allowed to try and get in that is fine, if the admin says you can try, go a head and have fun. But if the admin doesn't want that: stay out, don't try.

    Hackers get in secured networks but don't do any damage right?
    What if this hacker looks at some confidential data like creditcard numbers.

    We had a 'hacker' in Belgium and he called himself RedAttack. He got in to a bank(I think it was a bank, not sure) and he published some accounts to let the admins know that it wasn't safe, what if you were an owner of such an account?

    If I was an admin, I wouldn't want any one on my network that doesn't have to be there.

    Still, a whitehat wouldn't do that...

    Just about every true whitehat hacker will tell you a cardinal rule is to NEVER, EVER, EVERRRR break into a system without permission. With that bank account guy, he violated that. He broke in.

    As a hacker I've never broken in without permission. Ok, so I've played around with a port or two, but nothing hairy and nothing that can get you in trouble. There's absolutely nothing wrong with portsurfing to find something interesting, and if you see a potential flaw, you get a major urge to check it out...first you'll probably want to send an email to the admin of the system warning him of the flaw. If he gives you the go-ahead to check it out, then delve on. If you get the email back saying "thank you, I can take care of it from here" then beat it.

    Pretty simple stuff. Also, who's so stupid as to even attempt cracking into a bank and then publish, to the admin, from your own email address, what you've done...Even if he was just helping out what he did was wrong. It's the equivalent of someone staging a fake robbery to check out the physichal security.

  15. #30
    31173 h4x0r gnu-ehacks's Avatar
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    Maes, I completely agree. No hacker should hack into a server that does not explicitly allow access to that person, no matter what they intend to do. What if they accidently find some credit card accounts, and they find that they can easily edit them to give themselves a LOT of money, and they can't be traced. Well, I doubt that it's very easy to overcome this temptation.

    Also, what if you come over some classified company information? Then you realize that it will affect your best friend negatively. Are you going to tell your friend? If you do, you will be breaking ethical codes, by revealing confidential information, that wasn't even yours.

    Hackers should only hack servers that they have explicit permission to hack into.
    What will people say if they hear that I'm a Jesus freak?
    What will people do if they find that it's true?
    I don't really care if they label me a Jesus freak, there is no disguising the truth!

    Jesus Freak, D.C. Talk

    -gnu-ehacks

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