Baaad news for me

This is a discussion on Baaad news for me within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally Posted by Govtcheez Why should we glorify ancient Greek or Egyptian societies? Without the Greeks we might not have ...

  1. #16
    carry on JaWiB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Govtcheez View Post
    Why should we glorify ancient Greek or Egyptian societies?
    Without the Greeks we might not have democracy today. In fact, Greek thought was basically the foundation of western civilization. Heard of Socrates? Plato? Aristotle?

    I think there's a pretty good reason we glorify the Greeks...I don't know about the Egyptians though
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  2. #17
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
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    This is what it looked like after cleaning the streets:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBw09RMakrE

    Russians are gathering on the streets again. We can never know what they will do... Estonian embassador in Russia was taken hostage for half an hour. Russians in Russia are planning to come to Estonia to take part in riot. Estonian embassy then decided not to give out any visas.

    Russian gangs are moving towards Toompea - the place where the president lives. Many of those Russians are drunk.
    Last edited by maxorator; 04-27-2007 at 10:18 AM.
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  3. #18
    Mayor of Awesometown Govtcheez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvoigt View Post
    Basically, we just don't. I've been in Tunesia and I have not seen any glorifications of the Roman Empire, that razed their former capitol of Carthage a few millenia ago.
    Exactly. Leaving statues to stand isn't "glorifying" them

  4. #19
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
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    Some Russians are hiring other Russians to riot. Police cannot control the situation, because there aren't many of them.

    That Soviet Union statue was in the center of Tallinn in front of the National Library. It was moved to a cemetary.
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  5. #20
    Registered User Queatrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheez
    Exactly. Leaving statues to stand isn't "glorifying" them
    I would have to disagree with you. Statues are used to represent somthing good about the person in figure.
    Like this one in Estonia. And now that they don't share the same opinion, Russia isn't the happiest, they probably feel as if though they where ruddly mocked.

  6. #21
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    V for Vendetta movie people! The act of destroying the statue is a symbol in an of itself.

  7. #22
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
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    I would understand if it was destroyed. But no, it was moved to another place (to a cemetary not very far from it's previous location). We would never think of destroying it.

    At the moment they destroyed some more shops. They are attacking Estonians with knives. They attacked paramedics and the fire brigade.

    CHAOS.

    The monument thing was first discussed after the 9th May 2006 (their indepence day) when drunk Russians caused quite a chaos there, though noone had ever mentioned anything about the monument. Then people started thinking what does a Soviet Union monument do in the center of Tallinn in front of the National Library. The problem with that monument is that with that war they occupied Estonia. Russians don't know how it is to be occupied... I think there's nothing wrong with moving the monument to a cemetary.
    Last edited by maxorator; 04-27-2007 at 11:08 AM.
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  8. #23
    Mayor of Awesometown Govtcheez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queatrix View Post
    I would have to disagree with you. Statues are used to represent somthing good about the person in figure.
    They're also used to represent history. If the Estonians want to pull them down, it's certainly their right, but saying they're glorifying Communism is silly. It's not a crime to remember history.

  9. #24
    Registered User Queatrix's Avatar
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    Where are you right now maxorator?

  10. #25
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    found this article
    http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe...eut/index.html

    at least from what you and the article say, Russia is reminded of it's losses in WWII, which despite being soviets I'm sure they were in the same boat as many of the people in the campaign (Allies and Axis alike) who were drafted into the war for whatever reason. Estonia seems to think of it not as just a reminder of soviet occupation but also of a reminder of the lives, which is why it wasn't destroyed (though with the way Russia is acting, who would have the guts). Estonia should just send it to russia where they can do whatever they like with it in their territory since they care for it so much.

  11. #26
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
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    I am about 15km from the actual riot.

    We offered it to Russia but they aggressively rejected it. They told it must stay where it is - in the sight of all Estonians. Then government decided to move it to a decent cemetary...

    It was just moved to a decent cemetary. For Estonians that "victory" meant occupation for 50 years, (after that in 1941 and 1945 they deported about 1/20 of all Estonians to Siberia, 3/4 of Estonians had some of their close relatives deported to Siberia, 2/3 of the deported people died in Siberia in the next 2-3 years). Even now Russia does not admit that they had occupied Estonia.
    Last edited by maxorator; 04-27-2007 at 11:15 AM.
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  12. #27
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
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    There are not much Estonians on the streets, because we are reasonable and let the police try to do everything what is necessary. The president, mobile operators, email providers, ministers and news portals are all telling everyone to stay at home and not to be so stupid as the Russians on the streets are.
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  13. #28
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    Trebuchet that mofo.

  14. #29
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    >Even now Russia does not admit that they had occupied Estonia.
    This is exactly the kind of reason that convinced me to say what I did before. I mean, the monuments themselves hold no significance to me personally, but max is talking about it like they're attempting to cover up ever doing something wrong.

    Frankly, as mentioned, monuments don't glorify history, they preserve it. Wars are won in the minds of the people after all. I think that if you destroy a monument for the wrong reasons then it's no longer a symbol of triumph. And if America can make big moves in history and accept all the scorn and embarrassment, then I expect other countries to be mature enough to acknowledge their actions.

  15. #30
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citizen
    Frankly, as mentioned, monuments don't glorify history, they preserve it. Wars are won in the minds of the people after all. I think that if you destroy a monument for the wrong reasons then it's no longer a symbol of triumph. And if America can make big moves in history and accept all the scorn and embarrassment, then I expect other countries to be mature enough to acknowledge their actions.
    It was not destroyed. It was moved to a decent cemetary not far from it's previous location... And as I said we also offered it to Russia but they aggressively rejected it.
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