i dont even know what hacking means anymore

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  1. #16
    The superhaterodyne twomers's Avatar
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    >> I don't think my wife

    You're married? Damn these preconceived conceptions of ye all that I've built up over the last year! Reality's so much more confusing!!


    >> to my beleif [...]

    Both misspelled and probably not all encompassing. Not saying I have a better definition, but what really differentiates a 'script kiddie' from a 'hacker', to your beleif? Your examples were vague. Don't they all spring from the same source?

    What would you say Bob is more of, from the original post? 'Script kiddie' or 'cr/h acker'?

  2. #17
    dac
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    imo and with just skim reading the previous posts, cracking is breaking laws in terms of computing, whereas hacking is engineering type stuff, say fixing a program or whatever, wether it be breaking into a network to increase security etc.

    i think the biggest problem is when the words start to get either mixed up or used in different scenarios that their meaning in a social context changes.

  3. #18
    Insane Game Developer Nodtveidt's Avatar
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    The legal definition doesn't define it at the purest level. Keep in mind the vast number of laws and legal wordings that are either misguided or wholly incorrect. It's like looking at the dictionary for absolutism...most entries will be correct, but there will always be entries that are incorrect, making it not a 100% reliable source of information.
    Code:
    cout << "Language comparisons are dumb";
    echo("Language comparisons are dumb");
    PRINT "Language comparisons are dumb"
    alert ("Language comparisons are dumb")

  4. #19
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    There was a time when the distinction between hacking and cracking was not a problem at all. And then it happened that people with limited knowledge of computers and a thirst for being heard got an interest in computers; the press.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  5. #20
    For Narnia! Sentral's Avatar
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    Hacking sounds better then cracking, in terms of breaking into computers and stealing info. For example: " I'm going to crack you!" doesn't sound so good. "I'm going to hack you!" sounds better. IMHO!
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  6. #21
    dac
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sentral
    Hacking sounds better then cracking, in terms of breaking into computers and stealing info. For example: " I'm going to crack you!" doesn't sound so good. "I'm going to hack you!" sounds better. IMHO!
    agreed. its hard not to be lured onto the "i wanna be a hacker" bandwagon, especially when your young i.e. < 25. but i try not to think about stuff like that and just enjoy computing in other ways (not porn btw lol) as the term is used quite alot by people mostly kids who have no knowledge of how a computer works, hence me keeping away from that steryotype.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by twomers
    >> I don't think my wife

    You're married? Damn these preconceived conceptions of ye all that I've built up over the last year! Reality's so much more confusing!!


    >> to my beleif [...]

    Both misspelled and probably not all encompassing. Not saying I have a better definition, but what really differentiates a 'script kiddie' from a 'hacker', to your beleif? Your examples were vague. Don't they all spring from the same source?

    What would you say Bob is more of, from the original post? 'Script kiddie' or 'cr/h acker'?
    he would be a script kiddie. not creating original concepts wud take him out of the hacking set. iwould say that he made the keylogger to make it undetectable to antiviruses so id say even not even coder. in the hacking "scene"

    • A hacker discovers exploits and writes POC with or without using them
    • A cracker would or wouldnt discover the exploit BUT use it with malicious intent i.e viruses worms botnets
    • a script kiddie wouldnt create any new exploit or new concept but would use it to either make a tool\malware with or without using it for malicious purposes.


    http://www.able2know.com/forums/about10489.html

    read that article

    The discoverers are the actual hackers. white hat.
    HD Moore also a hacker.
    The creator of the worm blaster Jeffrey Lee Parson :- script kiddie
    The people using the worm\botnet to steal CC keys or profit\malicious intent :-crackers.


    EDIT:

    And thank you for correcting my english mistakes it is very relevant to the topic... just i wont be arsed to spellcheck at 3 in the morning.

  8. #23
    dac
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    Quote Originally Posted by mas0
    he would be a script kiddie. not creating original concepts wud take him out of the hacking set. iwould say that he made the keylogger to make it undetectable to antiviruses so id say even not even coder. in the hacking "scene"

    • A hacker discovers exploits and writes POC with or without using them
    • A cracker would or wouldnt discover the exploit BUT use it with malicious intent i.e viruses worms botnets
    • a script kiddie wouldnt create any new exploit or new concept but would use it to either make a tool\malware with or without using it for malicious purposes.


    http://www.able2know.com/forums/about10489.html

    read that article

    The discoverers are the actual hackers. white hat.
    HD Moore also a hacker.
    The creator of the worm blaster Jeffrey Lee Parson :- script kiddie
    The people using the worm\botnet to steal CC keys or profit\malicious intent :-crackers.


    EDIT:

    And thank you for correcting my english mistakes it is very relevant to the topic... just i wont be arsed to spellcheck at 3 in the morning.
    so your saying you can only be a "hacker" if your original? when it comes to computing theres only a certain amount of originality, i mean if every single person so called a "hacker" was original then there wouldnt be much if anyting left to solve, not to mention each "hacker" being original in more than one technique, skill, exploit etc etc..

  9. #24
    Insane Game Developer Nodtveidt's Avatar
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    I occasionally hex edit programs to remove limits, usually on programs that are too simplistic to justify paying money for or are so overpriced that even Bill Gates would get a stomachache. What "-cker" does that make me?

    By the way, script kiddies are immature toads that just use scripts or programs (that someone else wrote) to do damage. A script kiddie typically has no coding skill in that particular area. Crackers are the ones who write the script or program. "But they don't use it!" like hell they don't...how do you think they made it work in the first place? No one codes blind...except maybe a blind coder (I don't know any, do you?).
    Code:
    cout << "Language comparisons are dumb";
    echo("Language comparisons are dumb");
    PRINT "Language comparisons are dumb"
    alert ("Language comparisons are dumb")

  10. #25
    dac
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nodtveidt
    I occasionally hex edit programs to remove limits, usually on programs that are too simplistic to justify paying money for or are so overpriced that even Bill Gates would get a stomachache. What "-cker" does that make me?
    you naughty boy!


    wish i knew how to do that lol,

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by dac
    so your saying you can only be a "hacker" if your original? when it comes to computing theres only a certain amount of originality, i mean if every single person so called a "hacker" was original then there wouldnt be much if anyting left to solve, not to mention each "hacker" being original in more than one technique, skill, exploit etc etc..
    WRONG!

    Technology changes everyday improving becoming more challenging. Let me take a simple example. Firewall bypassing using a trojan.

    At the beginning, trojans couldnt bypass firewalls or routers, hackers invented reverse connection i.e the server part of the trojan connecting to the hacker. this solved the problem of being behind a router.

    since more and more people use firewalls, the hackers had to bypass that, firewalls usually have trusted programs. browsers messengers explorer etc. they figured out why not make a dll load called by one of those, it worked and bypassed firewalls.

    now firewalls hit back with detecting blocking dlls. what happens next? hackers dont stop. they implement the technology to create a remote thread and run directly from a code in memory. firewalls look defeated, but no they block the use of the functions

    WriteProcessMemory
    CreateRemoteThread

    bummer! hackers hit back by unhooking those user level functions. firewalls hit again by blocking the Kernel version of those calls. hackers hit back by patching the IAT..... story goes on. the fact that vista is out means that.... at least a dozen exploits are expected in a month. the first one has been out already.... it never stops, it is the quest for knowledge

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nodtveidt
    I occasionally hex edit programs to remove limits, usually on programs that are too simplistic to justify paying money for or are so overpriced that even Bill Gates would get a stomachache. What "-cker" does that make me?

    By the way, script kiddies are immature toads that just use scripts or programs (that someone else wrote) to do damage. A script kiddie typically has no coding skill in that particular area. Crackers are the ones who write the script or program. "But they don't use it!" like hell they don't...how do you think they made it work in the first place? No one codes blind...except maybe a blind coder (I don't know any, do you?).
    cracker. depending now. are you hex editing by yourself OR watching videos or reading step by step guides on how to do it(step by step guide for the program in question?) then again.... this is another definition of cracker, because the type of crackers who have that goal are usually in groups and they do release the cracks for the public for free. however some have money making motives OR malicious intent for example backdooring their pages or making money thru ads and so on.

    EDIT:
    cracking isnt hard, although i dnt have the knowledge to do it since ASM is out of my reach atm. however, patching is something , but let me give you a harder challenge. can you write me a piece of code that would make say the program you are hexing say dump a small file on the person executing it? would you take that as a challenge and do it? would you try or at least learn how to do it?
    Last edited by mas0; 01-02-2007 at 08:32 AM.

  13. #28
    dac
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    oooooooo, it looks like sombody has got their handbag out lol, what bugs me is that everybody seems to have the definate definition of what a hacker and a cracker are, who says who is right? judging by you not filing in a single detail about yourself makes me sceptical about where your coming from, i mean its hard to get a feel for the source of the info etc. not that im saying your likely to be wrong or anything. the terms are just a little subjective is all im saying.

  14. #29
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    They aren't subjective.

    An hacker is so without any malicious intent. A cracker has malicious intent. This is what they used to be back when this whole thread would make no sense.

    The media then came along and oversimplified it. Along with movies and even games. Hacker became a choice word. An easy moniker to signify anyone capable of hacking into a system they don't own. Whether for good or bad reasons. Whether authorized to do so, or not.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  15. #30
    {Jaxom,Imriel,Liam}'s Dad Kennedy's Avatar
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    Not only to get into a system (hacker), but anything that one must do to find some piece of information that is unknown to that person (i.e. information that is not readily available or given out via the mfg. company). Also, making a change in software/hardware that increases(/possibly decreases) functionalitiy, whether by permission, is a hack.

    Changing things in the Linux kernel, for example, is not wrong (illegal), however, is hacking.

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