GUI programming? Naah!

This is a discussion on GUI programming? Naah! within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; I still haven't found a GUI library with that special approach that I really like. Neither have I the time ...

  1. #16
    Cat without Hat CornedBee's Avatar
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    I still haven't found a GUI library with that special approach that I really like. Neither have I the time and inventiveness to come up with the approach.

    I wish a Boost.GUI would be developed.
    All the buzzt!
    CornedBee

    "There is not now, nor has there ever been, nor will there ever be, any programming language in which it is the least bit difficult to write bad code."
    - Flon's Law

  2. #17
    Registered /usr
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    The problem with GUI programming I feel is that there's no real "standard" way of doing it. Yeah you can use a cross-platform lib as being a de facto standard, but otherwise you're held hostage by whoever wrote the lib, their prejudicies and coding quality. If they're an idiot, you have to learn to be one too.

    Broadly speaking, Win32 is pretty good as far as pure windowing and graphics goes, but some things MS have done really suck. X is a slightly different paradigm, people coming from Win32 sometimes bang their heads against it but I believe it serves a different purpose.

    Compare this to command line usage with the ISO standard library and it's pretty obvious which is the easier option. Just remember that if one day you feel that you're good enough to at least mimic a commercial application, consider what a GUI would do for the non-programming user.

  3. #18
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Absolutely. However I would probably choose the "have a good shell and let someone else come up with a GUI". Or provide an API.

    I do love the shell. I consider it a very productive environment for many different type of applications. Consider gdb; I don't think it's only the lack of a decent GUI that makes most of us want to use its shell. There is a lot of functionality that is lost in a GUI translation, buried behind menus and submenus, key combinations, overlapping windows and lack of screen real estate.

    I did fall in love with the shell in one of the worst possible case scenarios; Many years ago while administering a VAX/VMS computer and those lovely 5 line commands just to make a backup.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  4. #19
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMurf
    The problem with GUI programming I feel is that there's no real "standard" way of doing it. Yeah you can use a cross-platform lib as being a de facto standard, but otherwise you're held hostage by whoever wrote the lib, their prejudicies and coding quality. If they're an idiot, you have to learn to be one too.
    There IS a standard. For Windows, it's Win32 API. For Linux, it is POSIX (I am not too sure about this one).
    "The Internet treats censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore

  5. #20
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    But it's not a standard in the same way that the ISO standard library (which currently doesn't handle any GUI) is, which works on any compliant platform instead of just one.

  6. #21
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    I believe only a portion of the Windows API has ever been standardized. And that is the interface to the C programming language.

    There is no standard.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  7. #22
    The superhaterodyne twomers's Avatar
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    Nor is there a spoon.

    Boost GUI would be cool!!

  8. #23
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
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    There is no standard.
    What do you mean by standard? A platform non-specific library?
    If so, that's NOT possible with GUI. The closest things are the Win32 and POSIX APIs.

    It's like asking "What is the standard way to cut things?".
    To cut wood, you need a saw. To cut an apple, you need a knife.
    To cut paper, you need scissors.
    Last edited by maxorator; 10-13-2006 at 07:56 AM.
    "The Internet treats censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore

  9. #24
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Nope... I mean by standard what a standard means.
    The description of the Win32 API internationally recognized and agreed by means of an independant body. ISO, ANSI, ECMA, etc...

    EDIT: And you didn't answer my question yet, Max
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  10. #25
    Dump Truck Internet valis's Avatar
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    Max, standards *do* exist, POSIX is one of them; Windows has a POSIX subsystem in fact. And no, POSIX isn't a graphical specification, something like OpenGL is (although not a GUI obviously).

    It is not meant a single GUI library that is cross platform, simply a description of what functionality a platform, language, etc. should supply to the developers.

    I think Windows should just adopt X.


    And to answer the initial post, I really loathe GUI stuff, I've done WinAPI, mfc, wxwidgets, and some qt. I just find it tedious, no real problem solving--simple piecing together of a giant cryptic lump of functions and classes.

  11. #26
    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mario F.
    I love it this Visual-Basic-Sux steryotype that people developed from hearsay. It's even more fun when you consider that a vast majority of windows business applications running everything inside a company from budgets to paychecks were developed in Visual Basic.
    Well, take it from me... I know from experience. Visual Basic sucks... from a programming perspective. It's absolutely hideous. They hide data, they're regularly implicit, they use terrible logic... it's really just disgusting. However, you can make some very nice GUI very simply in it. If you're righting a simple App for Windows that requires very little logic like a small hand calculator, then VB isn't a horrible option. However, I still would rather use Wx-DevC++ to work with drag-and-drop GUI building. I just feel more comfortable knowing that anything in the application, I can see and change in the code if I want.
    Sent from my iPad®

  12. #27
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
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    Drag-and-drop isn't programming.
    "The Internet treats censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore

  13. #28
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    The only GUI programming I've done is MFC and no matter how structured I start, it all ends up being spaghetti code by the end. But GUI is a necessary evil and now I'm beginning my own GUI in DirectX b/c the one provided by MS is not my cup of tea.

    All of us are dreading the design phase of this GUI system....I think all of us here dread GUI in one form or another.

  14. #29
    Code Goddess Prelude's Avatar
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    >I'm just curious as to if anyone else doesn't feel that drive towards moving their C++ learning (or experience) to GUI development.
    First, I'm not qualified to write GUIs. On top of that, my area of expertise is fundamentally at odds with front-end development. I've kept abreast of current technologies and techniques, but I honestly don't feel the need to write pretty interfaces when the guy a few doors over is so much better at it.
    My best code is written with the delete key.

  15. #30
    pwns nooblars
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    Providing a nice API then handing it off to someone who likes/is good at writing GUIs does sound like a pretty good idea.

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