Vista

This is a discussion on Vista within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; There's some sense in WDT rant. We just need to bypass the overpopulation thing But those 15 gigabytes are not ...

  1. #46
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    There's some sense in WDT rant. We just need to bypass the overpopulation thing

    But those 15 gigabytes are not the operating system. Minimal installation IS the operating system. The 15 gigabytes are the OS plus all the toys.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  2. #47
    Administrator webmaster's Avatar
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    So what is so much better in Vista that makes it take 10x more space than XP does.
    It's not so much that it needs to be 10x better. It would need to be 10x better if the average cost of disk space were anywhere close to what it was five years ago. (And even that's not really true--you'd just have to account for the marginal cost of having an OS taking up that much disk space.)

    If you want an OS with a small memory footprint, you can always use a cell phone.

  3. #48
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
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    So Microsoft is just not wasting any time to make the thing smaller by optimizing it, because they think they don't need to make it any smaller?

    Cell phone is kind of... uncomfortable to work with
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  4. #49
    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxorator
    So Microsoft is just not wasting any time to make the thing smaller by optimizing it, because they think they don't need to make it any smaller?
    Basically, yes. It figures into the same situation as most programming, today. Minor optimizations in memory management and efficiency don't pay off as much as they used to because the percentage of time and space saved is almost negligible.

    Think of it like this... if you were moving from one apartment to another and you have to pack up your stuff to fit in the truck... but consider that maybe, a second truck (or one larger truck) would only cost you a small amount of money but would save you about 6 hours in trying to pack everything in one truck. It pays off in the end to just buy the extra space. Most people think of HD space in the same way, these days. Hard drives are coming out with more space than we can handle or ever need. You say that 15GB is 16106127360 characters, but my hard drives can hold 536870912000. Think about how many books I can fit on my HDs, even after I install Vista. Nearly a county library's worth... As I said, HD space is cheap, so developers waste it at no expense to their labor time. A second spent on conserving memory and processing time is worth way more than a second spent on saving HD space.
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  5. #50
    Cat without Hat CornedBee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webmaster
    It's not so much that it needs to be 10x better. It would need to be 10x better if the average cost of disk space were anywhere close to what it was five years ago.
    So if I update my own program by adding no-ops to it until it reaches twice the size, but in the same time disk space costs half of what it did when I released the first version, that additional space is justified?

    Sorry, I don't buy it.
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  6. #51
    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CornedBee
    So if I update my own program by adding no-ops to it until it reaches twice the size, but in the same time disk space costs half of what it did when I released the first version, that additional space is justified?

    Sorry, I don't buy it.
    No, no, no... there is a difference between "no-ops" and "not quite the same ratio of advancement to increased disk space". Vista will have more than XP. Presumably, a lot more. I wouldn't say it's going to be 10x better, but as Webmaster said, it really doesn't need to be. The unnecessary waste of disk space doesn't have to account for the extras... it also accounts for the fact that making the OS take up less space could take another 6-12 months of development and testing. In the end, when the price of disk space is factored in, it may definitely pay off if Vista is any good.
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  7. #52
    Administrator webmaster's Avatar
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    So if I update my own program by adding no-ops to it until it reaches twice the size, but in the same time disk space costs half of what it did when I released the first version, that additional space is justified?
    It's not a question of whether it's it's justified; it's that, from the perspective of someone deciding if that program is worthwhile, everything else being equal, it's irrelevant. (But everything isn't equal, since you'd have the earlier version so no-one would buy the new one unless those no-ops somehow managed to added some pretty graphics )

  8. #53
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
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    I have a 40GB HDD. It is stupid that Vista would take 37.5% of it.
    "The Internet treats censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore

  9. #54
    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
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    ... and there in lies the dilemma. Why spend $100+ dollars on Vista when you can spend $60- on a 160GB HD?
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  10. #55
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
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    $85 are the cheapest available here.

    Who told you I want to to buy Vista anyway?
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  11. #56
    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
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    Umm... I would say that you did since you're so overly concerned about how much space it would take on your hard drive. Do you often like to complain about things that won't affect you at all? I think fish stinks up the house, but I don't go yelling it out because I'll never buy fish.

    I bet you can get cheaper than $85 if you search the net on Euro sites that deliver to your country. That's assuming you're doing your exchange rate correctly or at all.
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  12. #57
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlyMaelstrom
    Do you often like to complain about things that won't affect you at all?
    Yes I do.
    Quote Originally Posted by SlyMaelstrom
    I bet you can get cheaper than $85 if you search the net on Euro sites that deliver to your country. That's assuming you're doing your exchange rate correctly or at all.
    Then I must pay at least $20 for the delivery.
    "The Internet treats censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore

  13. #58
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    $20 for delivery?

    I don't think so...
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  14. #59
    System Novice siavoshkc's Avatar
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    I don't know why you guys/gals go for MS products when Linux is present and free.
    When we say MS is bad, there is always an answer, don't use it. I don't like this answer but I can't find out why this answer is not satisfying.
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  15. #60
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
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    I've never said XP is bad. I am just saying that Vista takes too much disk space.
    "The Internet treats censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore

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