Another blow for video games

This is a discussion on Another blow for video games within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Due to the recent Montreal shooting incident the media is once again attempting to blame video games. They are now ...

  1. #1
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    Another blow for video games

    Due to the recent Montreal shooting incident the media is once again attempting to blame video games. They are now blaming some stupid 2D RPG clone game for the shooting.

    When will people learn that we buy the games that we love therefore it is more appropriate to say we are what we buy, not what we buy makes us who we are.

    It's obvious the guy was already obsessed with death and what not, I highly doubt a 2D type zelda RPG of a massacre pushed him over the edge.

    But here we go again on the stupid debate. Blame this blame that blame him blame her, just don't blame the person who did it.

    I'm sick of the media attempting to paint a picture of an altar boy that is seduced into a massacre by a video game. Most of the people who do commit these kinds of acts are one screw short of an erector set anyways.
    Last edited by VirtualAce; 09-14-2006 at 11:02 PM.

  2. #2
    Even death may die... Dante Shamest's Avatar
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    Well said. Reminds me of Scream, where the killer pokes fun of people who blame violent movies for creating murderers:

    Don't you blame the movies.
    Movies don't create psychos.
    Movies make psychos more creative.

  3. #3
    pwns nooblars
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    Where is the article Bubba... speaking to some of my friends in Canada who have been reading a lot of the news on this and they haven't seen anything on it. I attempted to Google it and came up with nothing for Montreal Shooting and Video Game other than where they happened to appear on the same page randomly.

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    train spotter
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    We in Australia play the very same violent video games as others in the world.

    Our children don't go around shooting random strangers or each other with automatic rifles.

    Why?

    Nothing special, is very simple......

    We don't allow people, let alone children, have to have access to guns!
    "Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
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    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    Well thats our second ammendment right here in the U.S. and if they tried to take that away, I'd take up arms. That's what protects us. It's the fools who don't use them correctly that ruin it for everyone else. Guns in and of themselves are not evil, people are.

    Without guns, half of Europe would be speaking a mix of German and Japanese today.

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    Even death may die... Dante Shamest's Avatar
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    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    > Without guns, half of Europe would be speaking a mix of German and Japanese today.

    I really resent that. And I don't see what exactly is it supposed to mean. I thought the regular american army fought in Europe, not some yelling 2nd ammendment partisans carrying their home guns.

    I also thought the Allies fought in Europe, as they did in Africa, Asia an in the Pacific. I wonder How many Americans would be talking Japanese.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  8. #8
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    I believe Bubba is making the point that other languages like German and Japanese, for example, have throughout history threatened to make English a secondary language in the United States. However, a little research shows that German never even came close to being considered the official language of the U.S. (source) Neither has Japanese, which has only recently gotten popular enough to be available for study in American schools in select states, like Hawaii and Georgia. America doesn't even have an official language; (source) it just so happens that most of us speak English. Regardless of how history may have changed this, the fact remains it didn't, and that guns alone weren't the only thing that helped us win WWII.
    Last edited by whiteflags; 09-15-2006 at 03:31 AM.

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    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    I really resent that. And I don't see what exactly is it supposed to mean. I thought the regular american army fought in Europe, not some yelling 2nd ammendment partisans carrying their home guns.
    It means guns protect and are useful when used correctly. Blaming the gun is blaming a stupid piece of metal that is designed to work in a certain way. Put the blame where it belongs. On the idiot using it incorrectly. As to your other statements I'm not going to dive into the history of WW2 here.

    The 2nd ammendment is part of our Bill Of Rights and it will always be there. Making more laws is not going to do anything b/c it's already illegal to take a gun out and blast someone, yet folks still do it. More laws will just make it harder for the responsible gun owners to own a gun, but it won't stop the wackos b/c the laws we have now don't stop the wackos.

    But back to the topic which is not gun control but more the fact that everyone wants to blame a stupid video game for another person's actions. This kind of thinking ticks me off b/c games don't do anything. Heck I play GTA San Andreas all the time and to be honest, the game is more annoying and difficult than it is grotesque and violent. The graphics IMO look stupid because most of the polygons are spent on the cars and buildings. The people have very low polygon and triangle counts. If you attempt to calculate what they are trying to display you will find that you cannot spend the same amount of polies on everything. Something has to give and that is the character models. The pathfinding is good but quite humorous at times when the AI insists on walking everyone into a wall repeatedly even as they bounce off it time and time again. I dunno I just cannot see why this little game gets so much bad press. Trying to ban the game is stupid. The kids who buy the game probably got their money from their parents so they must be attempting to pass a law that you must be a good, responsible parent. This whole line of thinking is ludicrous and I cannot believe any sensible person buys into it.

    Games are so much less graphic than anything I see on TV or the movies and yet they blame them first thing. I wouldn't even blame movies - blame the person b/c they commited the act. GTA 3+ always gets a bad rap but it has some of the best game design (although the missions are extremely tough in San Andreas later in the game), best free-form design and play, and yet the concept is so simple and straightforward anyone can pick the game up at any time and start playing it and have tons of fun. If I could come close to creating something like GTA...well I probably wouldn't be doing what I am today.
    Last edited by VirtualAce; 09-15-2006 at 03:38 AM.

  10. #10
    the hat of redundancy hat nvoigt's Avatar
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    Well thats our second ammendment right here in the U.S. and if they tried to take that away, I'd take up arms. That's what protects us. It's the fools who don't use them correctly that ruin it for everyone else. Guns in and of themselves are not evil, people are.
    As far as I know, the second ammendment was meant to protect the citizens from the government in a time when 20 people with rifles were a formidable fighting force. The constitution grants you the right to form such a fighting force on your own, to counterbalance the governments armed forces just in case your head of state is an as<peeeep>. But really, that time is past. If the government wants to fsck you, it won't send Jim West on his horse. So tell me, to counterbalance your government, are you allowed to own anti-tank mines or surface-to-air missiles ? Nukes ? If you are not, then all of this "to protect the citizens from the evil government" is outdated and irrelevant. All it serves today is giving people an excuse to own handguns. Handguns can be used to kill your wife, assault your neighbour, rob a liquor store or maybe kill a cop. But handguns are not a valid choice to keep your government in check. It has nuclear bombs for christs sake.
    Yes, guns are not evil, people are. Why not let go guns on a plane then ? Because devices that multiply the "evilness" of people are dangerous. Someone who intends to kill people can strangle them if everything else fails. But I have a hard time imagine a headline like "20 strangled in school massacre". Don't let evil people have a multiplier.

    Without guns, half of Europe would be speaking a mix of German and Japanese today.
    Probably. And without bread we'd probably all be dead. But that's not the point. WWII were regular armed forces. Not the militia. Soviet human resources superiority and allied equipment superiority. No second ammendment there.
    hth
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  11. #11
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    > Games are so much less graphic than anything I see on TV or the movies and yet they blame them first thing. I wouldn't even blame movies

    On this I agree. However, not even the media are to be blamed really. It's not some graphical violent scene on the news that will drive someone nuts into shooting everyboy at work or at school.

    If you ask me, it's a matter of home environment first, and culture slash society, second. The same movies, the same games, the same news go across the world. And yet, with due exceptions the problems occur in the same place.

    There has been massacres in Australia, Canada, UK... Switzerland (can't recall. But I think Switzerland yes). However there is something in the US that makes this an unfortunate repetitive event. I don't think it has anything to do with guns either (despite the fact I loath guns in an home environment). After all Canada has similar laws and the same ratio of guns per person and yet, they don't go around killing each other all the time.

    It's perhaps time US really wakes up to a problem that is going to bite in their arse soon if they don't do something about it. Not many countries in the world have simultaneously a Timothy McVeigh, and Columbine Shooting, and many other violent stories in their resume of late events. Something is dead wrong. Literally.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  12. #12
    Devil's Advocate SlyMaelstrom's Avatar
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    The US has a large population... there for many crimes happen. Look at India or China... they have riots and bombings and killings all the time. Too many people in too little space. The problem with the US is we have so much space but it all goes to waste because it isn't "prime space"... Cities thrive for residents because it's close to the jobs. I think if we spread the population out we'd have much less crime. I think network technology is going to bring us that future.

    As for my opinions on guns... I personally believe in the right to bear arms. However it should be significantly more difficult to attain one than it is. I also disagree with the statements that movies and TV are more graphic than games... what movies do you watch? What games do you play? There are not many movies where the main character gets in a car and starts running hundreds of people over on the street. I think games are targets more than movies because of what they offer... the ability to control the violence. GTA games have good story lines and you could probably get through each one of them without killing more than 50 people yourself. However... if the user pleases, they can kill thousands of people. They can go onto the street and torch people. If offers this option... and I think that's what doctors feel build tolerance to violence. The ability to choose the violence... you get me?
    Last edited by SlyMaelstrom; 09-15-2006 at 04:46 AM.
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    and the Hat of Clumsiness GanglyLamb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wraithan
    Where is the article Bubba... speaking to some of my friends in Canada who have been reading a lot of the news on this and they haven't seen anything on it. I attempted to Google it and came up with nothing for Montreal Shooting and Video Game other than where they happened to appear on the same page randomly.
    Life is like a video game, you gotta die sometime.

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    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    > GTA games have good story lines and you could probably get through each one of them without killing more than 50 people yourself

    There is something wrong with these games. I can't put my finger on it.

    But regardless, a game that is driven solely by the notion of gratuitous violence can't be a good thing when played by youngsters without any kind of supervision. With or without a "good"(?) storyline.

    As a parent I wonder if I ever saw my daughter playing this game and found her taking great pleasure by running over pedestrians or making them puch bags. Would I be proud of her skills? Worried about why she would find that fun even in a game context?

    The games readily display their violent nature. They are also clearly rated as Mature 17+. So it's forbidden to sell them to anyone without an ID card that can't prove their age. Does this happen? Nope. It does not. So... who's to blame exactly if it was found out that these games do indeed provoke a violent attitude in real life?

    Clearly not the game makers (although personally I have no respect for these people). However it has to be said that the main argument against these type of games is the fact they promote violence. In order to achieve our goal we are directed into a life of crime. This, some specialists say, blurs the difference between good and bad. And the graphical nature of the violence, they say, dismistifies death. It makes it look almost... ok.

    We cannot deny this argument. We cannot prove it wrong, the same they cannot prove it right. Not at least for now. However, the irony (or immorality if you prefer) of this argument is that, if it was found to be true, it can then be readily applied to all the media. Movies too... but also television and the news. And then what? Are TV stations interested in stop showing during prime time what gives them the ratings? No more car chases across US streets? No more live coverage of wars with reporters riding on tanks? No more COPS during prime time?...
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  15. #15
    Yes, my avatar is stolen anonytmouse's Avatar
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    Blame this blame that blame him blame her, just don't blame the person who did it.
    Blaming the offender is easy and feels good. However, it won't prevent future crimes. The fact is that countries and regions with similar genetic populations have different rates of violent crime. Therefore, we can say that environmental factors affect the rate of violent crime. Some analysis and discussion of these factors is desirable. Unfortunately, as you've pointed out, any analysis by the media or politicians is usually simplistic and populist, and not based on solid evidence.

    It is worth pointing out that Canada generally has a low rate of violent crime.

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