Are you addicted?

This is a discussion on Are you addicted? within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Cocaine is a physical addiction, as is nicotine, heroin, alchohol, and other barbituates. Physiological addictions are the hardest to overcome. ...

  1. #16

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    Cocaine is a physical addiction, as is nicotine, heroin, alchohol, and other barbituates. Physiological addictions are the hardest to overcome. The fact that you say physical addictions are nothing compared to psychological is astounding, and contradicts both science and logic.
    Yeah, one you didnt mention is caffeine. I'm so terribly dependent...I get tired with or without it. I tried cutting back from the coffee...somebody coughed outside and I got so angry i tore my head off.

    True story, it really happened.
    I'm not immature, I'm refined in the opposite direction.

  2. #17
    The Earth is not flat. Clyde's Avatar
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    Cocaine is a physical addiction
    Actually AFAIK cocaine is more of a psychological addiction:

    Cocaine addiction is the excessive intake of cocaine, and can result in physiological damage, lethargy, depression, or a potentially fatal overdose. Though the immediate craving to do more cocaine is strong and very common, this feeling usually subsides in most users within an hour of the last dosage. This craving can, as it has in many users, develop rather quickly into an intense psychological addiction. Many habitual abusers have been diagnosed with a manic condition similar to amphetamine psychosis and schizophrenia, whose symptoms include aggression, severe paranoia, and tactile hallucinations (including the feeling of insects under the skin, or "coke bugs").

    Cocaine has positive reinforcement effects, which refers to the effect that certain stimuli have on behavior. Good feelings become associated with the drug, causing a frequent user to take the drug as a response to bad news or mild depression. This activation strengthens the response that was just made. If the drug was taken by a fast acting route such as injection or inhalation, the response will be the act of taking more cocaine, so the response will be reinforced. Powder cocaine, being a club drug is mostly consumed in the evening and night hours. Because cocaine is a stimulant, a user will often drink large amounts of alcohol during and after usage or smoke marijuana to dull the effects and promote slumber. These several hours of temporary relief and pleasure will further reinforce the positive response. Other downers such as heroin and various pharmaceuticals are often used for the same purpose, further increasing addiction potential and harmfulness.

    It is speculated that cocaine's addictive properties stem from its DAT-blocking effects (in particular, increasing the dopaminergic transmission from ventral tegmental area neurons). However, a study has shown that mice with no dopamine transporters still exhibit the rewarding effects of cocaine administration. [18] Later work demonstrated that a combined DAT/SERT knockout eliminated the rewarding effects.[19] The rewarding effects of cocaine are influenced by circadian rhythms [20], possibly by involving a set of genes termed "clock genes". [21]
    -Wikipedia
    Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem

  3. #18
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    From your own quote:
    It is speculated that cocaine's addictive properties stem from its DAT-blocking effects (in particular, increasing the dopaminergic transmission from ventral tegmental area neurons).
    Sounds physical to me. I do concede the fact that the wikipedia article made it sound as if there was psychological as well as physical addictive properties.

    My original point still stands though. It is way easier to overcome a phsychological addiction than it is to overcome a physical one.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bithub
    Cocaine is a physical addiction, as is nicotine, heroin, alchohol, and other barbituates. Physiological addictions are the hardest to overcome. The fact that you say physical addictions are nothing compared to psychological is astounding, and contradicts both science and logic.
    Alcoholism is just as much a psychological addiction as it is a
    physical one. And according to Columbia University Health Educators,
    who're all smarter than you, it's easier to treat the physical
    dependency than the psychological dependcy.

    A person can be psychologically dependent without being physically dependent, but a person can't be physically dependent without being psychologically dependent. A person who is addicted to drinking develops an increased physical tolerance to the booze, and needs to gradually drink more in order to achieve the same amount of drunkenness. Chronic alcoholism occurs when there are both physical and psychological addictions. Alcoholism is treatable and controllable, but not curable. And, it's much easier to treat the physical dependency than to treat the psychological dependency.

    http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/0003.html

    How in the world can you compare a psychological addiction (like gambling or overeating) to a physical addiction? The drugs I listed above actually change the user's body chemistry making the person physically depend on the drug just to stay normal. It can be so bad that stopping cold turkey could actually kill the user.
    Maybe because physical addictions are easier to recognize and
    treat? There is a science behind chemical addictions; an actual
    effect that these drugs have on the body that can be seen from
    person to person. Everybody is addicted to nicotine for the same
    reasons.

    Psychological addictions can be completely unique, though. You
    may be addicted to gambling for a completely different reason
    that govtcheez is addicted to gambling; you may like the thrill
    of risking your money, while govtcheez loves the ego boost after
    he has just pwn'd someone at, like... darts. I dunno. You should
    be able to get the point, though.

    You need to find out *why* they're addicted before you can start
    treating them. It seems like it would be more difficult to discover
    the cause with psychological addictions.
    Staying away from General.

  5. #20
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    Alcoholism is just as much a psychological addiction as it is a
    physical one. And according to Columbia University Health Educators,
    who're all smarter than you, it's easier to treat the physical
    dependency than the psychological dependcy.
    It's much easier to treat the physical dependency. It is not easier to overcome the physical dependency though. That is what we're arguing after all. Good job proving a point that no one else in this thread is trying to make or argue. You can treat a morphine addiction with methadone. Darned if it still isn't ridiculously hard to break the habit though...

    Everybody is addicted to nicotine for the same
    reasons.
    And nicotine addiction has a 93% relapse rate. Hmmm... makes you wonder why so many people fail to break this simple, well understood physical addiction.

    Psychological addictions can be completely unique, though. You
    may be addicted to gambling for a completely different reason
    that govtcheez is addicted to gambling; you may like the thrill
    of risking your money, while govtcheez loves the ego boost after
    he has just pwn'd someone at, like... darts. I dunno. You should
    be able to get the point, though.
    Some people have an oral fixation with feet. That is a very unique addiction. That uniqueness in no way makes the addiction harder to overcome than something more common. Your arguments don't have anything to do with the argument...

    You can search google all night long, and post as many obscure studies as you can find. I'm willing to bet you've never known anyone addicted to heroin before. You've never stayed up all night with someone while they screamed out in physical pain from the withdrawls. But I'm sure gambling addicts go through something similar.... right?

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bithub
    It's much easier to treat the physical dependency. It is not easier to overcome the physical dependency though. That is what we're arguing after all. Good job proving a point that no one else in this thread is trying to make or argue. You can treat a morphine addiction with methadone. Darned if it still isn't ridiculously hard to break the habit though...

    Jesus. Semantics. However, I'll admit that was my fault. I read it
    wrong. I made an assumption. I assumed that treating someone
    resulted in success. You're right. Okay.

    Maybe we should define every word we plan on using before we
    continue on. Let's define hard. What makes an addiction hard to
    overcome?

    Is it the physical pain one experiences from withdrawals? Is that
    it? Okay, you're right again. Quitting heroin is more physically painful
    than quitting everything else. Genius.

    However, if we consider harder to mean the time it takes to
    overcome the addiction, I'm sure it would take a lot longer to
    convince yourself to dislike something you actually don't than it
    would to get over any physical dependency. I mean, we're talking
    about brainwashing here. That's quite difficult to do, especially to
    an adult. Although, I have no obscure links to prove that.


    And nicotine addiction has a 93% relapse rate. Hmmm... makes you wonder why so many people fail to break this simple, well understood physical addiction.
    Hey, look. Here *you* are proving nothing with a statement.

    Sure, it's a physical addiction. People relapse for psychological
    reasons, though. Good job.

    You do know it is possible to be both psychologically and physically
    addicted to the same thing, right?

    Some people have an oral fixation with feet. That is a very unique addiction. That uniqueness in no way makes the addiction harder to overcome than something more common. Your arguments don't have anything to do with the argument...
    When I said "unique", I was referring to the reasons behind the
    addiction; not the actual thing they're addicted to. I thought that
    was pretty clear when I compared cheez's reasons for gambling
    with the other person's.

    People are physically addicted to substances for the same reasons.
    But, not all people are addicted to video games because of the
    graphics.

    My fault, again. I should have been more clear. You win. Still, though;
    I'm going to disagree with you again. The uniqueness of the
    addiction can have a bearing on how hard it is to beat. I can
    expand on that, but I just don't want to.

    You can search google all night long, and post as many obscure studies as you can find. I'm willing to bet you've never known anyone addicted to heroin before. You've never stayed up all night with someone while they screamed out in physical pain from the withdrawls. But I'm sure gambling addicts go through something similar.... right?
    And you can provide as many anecdotes about your junky friends
    who were dumb enough to get into heroin in the first place. Sorry,
    he's not a victim of anything other than his own idiocy. Guess what.
    People aren't generally responsible for their psychological
    addictions.

    It can literally take years to overcome a psychological addiction.
    Not only that, but the temptation to relapse is quite a bit higher
    simply because the stimuli is more accessible.

    Maybe gambling addicts don't go through the physical pain that
    junkies do, but I'm quite sure they're suffering in their own way.

    //edit: I'm editing stuff. Don't qoute me!
    //edit: k, think I'm done.
    Last edited by Cheeze-It; 06-11-2006 at 02:01 AM.
    Staying away from General.

  7. #22
    The Earth is not flat. Clyde's Avatar
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    Sounds physical to me. I do concede the fact that the wikipedia article made it sound as if there was psychological as well as physical addictive properties.
    Yea but the causes are always going to be physical, even psychological addictions are addictions to physical things.

    I have heard the claim multiple times that Cocaine is mostly a psychological addiction, heroine however is more of a physical addiction (and AFAIK is the harder of the two to break out from).
    Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem

  8. #23
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Anyways, wish all the best to all our youngsters that once leaving that detox center will no longer beat me in Half-Life.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethic
    ignorant babble
    I can't argue with that kind of mentality... so I won't. According to your profile, you are 23 years old. How about you call me in 20 years when you actually have some life experience to back up your claims instead of some stupid inner need to argue something you know nothing about. Feel free to respond with some witty remarks though; I love it how college students take a few GE classes and think they're experts on the topic!

  10. #25
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    However, if we consider harder to mean the time it takes to
    overcome the addiction, I'm sure it would take a lot longer to
    convince yourself to dislike something you actually don't than it
    would to get over any physical dependency. I mean, we're talking
    about brainwashing here. That's quite difficult to do, especially to
    an adult. Although, I have no obscure links to prove that.
    Brainwashing is ridiculously simple. In sex offender treatment programs, in addition to all the group- and homework they give you, they make pedophiles masturbate beyond the point of physical pain (possibly on a regular basis). That pretty much kills their desire for children.

    If you are possibly a terrorist or spy they can do several things to get you to talk or brainwash you. Truth syrum utterly stupefy you, get you to believe things. Read up on the art of torture before posting stupid .........

    Not that this has anything to do with treating a drug problem anyway so that point is moot. If brainwashing was the agenda, detox clinics would be so much more effective than they are. In detox clinics they let you go through withdrawals, you talk a lot, and after you're done freaking out you go home.
    Last edited by whiteflags; 06-11-2006 at 10:24 AM.

  11. #26
    (?<!re)tired Mario F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bithub
    I can't argue with that kind of mentality[...] According to your profile, you are 23 years old [...] some stupid inner need to argue something you know nothing about. [...] I love it how college students take a few GE classes and think they're experts on the topic!
    I'm addicted to this thread.
    The programmer’s wife tells him: “Run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen.”
    The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


    Originally Posted by brewbuck:
    Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bithub
    I can't argue with that kind of mentality... so I won't. According to your profile, you are 23 years old. How about you call me in 20 years when you actually have some life experience to back up your claims instead of some stupid inner need to argue something you know nothing about. Feel free to respond with some witty remarks though; I love it how college students take a few GE classes and think they're experts on the topic!

    I'm 24 and have never been to college. Thanks for assuming I'm a
    college student. It makes me feel smart.


    Brainwashing is ridiculously simple. In sex offender treatment programs, in addition to all the group- and homework they give you, they make pedophiles masturbate beyond the point of physical pain (possibly on a regular basis). That pretty much kills their desire for children.
    Um. You can't be serious.

    No, they don't make pedophiles masturbate beyond the point of
    physical pain. You're an idiot if you actually believe that. I'm pretty
    sure that would constitute as "cruel and unusual punishment." I
    can't even see how it would be possible to make someone
    masturbate.

    Unless "MI" doesn't mean Michigan and you live in some weird
    country, you're completely wrong. That doesn't happen in the
    United States.


    If you are possibly a terrorist or spy they can do several things to get you to talk or brainwash you. Truth syrum utterly stupefy you, get you to believe things. Read up on the art of torture before posting stupid ........
    *sigh*

    You can't count on the accuracy of information obtained by
    torture. And Torture isn't an art you psychopath.
    Staying away from General.

  13. #28
    Registered User whiteflags's Avatar
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    Hey don't yell at me, you are the one who claimed that brainwashing was a part of the detox/recovery process, which it isn't. Which you completely skipped over.

    No, they don't make pedophiles masturbate beyond the point of
    physical pain. You're an idiot if you actually believe that. I'm pretty
    sure that would constitute as "cruel and unusual punishment." I
    can't even see how it would be possible to make someone
    masturbate.
    No you're right, probably not. But it would work.

    You can't count on the accuracy of information obtained by
    torture.
    True, but it almost doesn't matter because if you're torturing just for that, than it's all you have to work with. It still happens anyway, and it does work eventually.

  14. #29
    the hat of redundancy hat nvoigt's Avatar
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    Oh how I like this topic. Addicted to video games ? Yeah, like that would ever really happen.

    Mommy, Mommy, I spent all night playing this game and now I'm all thrashed and will fail my test at school. But it wasn't me. Really, I'm not responsible for this, see, I'm addicted. Wasn't me really. No, no, not me. Wasn't me.

    No. You're not addicted. You need to get your ........ together and assume responsibility for what you do. You decided to spent all night playing.

    Videogames have the same qualities any good book or tv serial has. Just the next page, level, episode or whatever. Just one more. Oops, sun goes up, damn. I have spent nights ( full weekends even ) reading Stephen King/Tom Clancy books cover to cover, watching 50 episodes Beverly Hills 90210 ( yes, I'm still alive ) without break or playing a cool video game when "cool" meant NetHack. I have probably failed a test or two because rushing Moscow with my imaginary panzer army was more fun than studying Communism. But it was my decision. Maybe short sighted, maybe wrong, but my decision.

    Claiming addiction when you did something you later regret is just the cheap way out. And you will do it again. Face your decisions and live with it, denial is no solution.

    There will be people with serious problems concerning computer games. Probably the same that would have other, no less serious, problems in different parts of life, computer games was just the first to show. There's more than a billion chinese people and I bet out of these incredible masses there was at least one who died doing nothing else but breathing. Some died during sex, some had freak accidents, some were plain dumb and 2 died playing WoW. Big deal. I guess concerning deaths and addiction, we should first ban safer sex. There really is no reason to do it other than supposed "fun" and still people do it. Ask a junkie and you'll get the same reply. "Why do you do it ?" "Because I like it. ". Ban sex already. It's addictive. See, all signs are right here. Not having any and thinking about it. Scary, dangerous stuff. Ban it.
    hth
    -nv

    She was so Blonde, she spent 20 minutes looking at the orange juice can because it said "Concentrate."

    When in doubt, read the FAQ.
    Then ask a smart question.

  15. #30
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    Ever see that episode of Star Trek: TNG where Riker
    brings that frisbee game on board that shoots lasers
    into the users' eyes? You ........ing tell me the crew wasn't
    addicted to that game? They were. And that addiction
    almost resulted in the complete takeover of the Enterprise.
    Last edited by Cheeze-It; 06-12-2006 at 06:58 AM.
    Staying away from General.

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