Linux != Windows....

This is a discussion on Linux != Windows.... within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; a bit of a fun poke at people who complain that "it works this way in windows, why doesn't it ...

  1. #1
    Registered User Jaqui's Avatar
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    Talking Linux != Windows....

    a bit of a fun poke at people who complain that "it works this way in windows, why doesn't it in linux?"

    Linux != Windows
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Henager
    If the average user can put a CD in and boot the system and follow the prompts, he can install and use Linux. If he can't do that simple task, he doesn't need to be around technology.

  2. #2
    mov.w #$1337,D0 Jeremy G's Avatar
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    Interesting article, even though it goes against the trend of every linux I've ever met thats told me "why haven't you switched to linux yet?".

    It's funny that their goal isn't "On every desktop" but they are more then willing to brow beat you into submission until you install linux.


    Any who, I've made the transition to linux recently switching first to linux for my development computer at work and shortly after tossing linux on my laptop who's keyboard is traggically borked since the great Kool-aid spill of 2005. I enjoy using linux, I enjoy the power it has to offer but I also really enjoy the simplicity of windows.

    Honestly I complain to my coworker all the time about windows "just working" when ever something pops up that needs attention before it works. But I do it mostly in jest because he convinced me to switch to linux. I knew what I was getting into, but I like to remind him frequently I actually enjoyed windows.

    The only really complaint I have about linux is the difficult of installation for new users. I know the greatness of linux comes from that fact you can build everything from the ground up using components you need but for the typical user interpriting what kernel options they need to compile is beyond reason.

    I think all the distro's should have the option to be installed easily (like mandrake or red hat) further more I think linux should have the goal of "on every desktop". If you could get people starting with linux instead of windows you wouldnt have the major "like windows" complaints. Then using the vast numbers of users, convert the windows users to linux. In the end we'd all be better off.
    c++->visualc++->directx->opengl->c++;
    (it should be realized my posts are all in a light hearted manner. And should not be taken offense to.)

  3. #3
    Cat without Hat CornedBee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy G
    I think all the distro's should have the option to be installed easily (like mandrake or red hat) further more I think linux should have the goal of "on every desktop". If you could get people starting with linux instead of windows you wouldnt have the major "like windows" complaints. Then using the vast numbers of users, convert the windows users to linux. In the end we'd all be better off.
    That's a completely absurd request. If there is a single distro that is easily installable, that should suffice. What good does it do to make every single one that way? Some distros are for people who know their stuff. I'm happy with Gentoo's way right now - but I never recommend it to people who don't know a good deal about computers.
    All the buzzt!
    CornedBee

    "There is not now, nor has there ever been, nor will there ever be, any programming language in which it is the least bit difficult to write bad code."
    - Flon's Law

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    The goal of Linux is to provide an open source kernel for a multitude of platforms.

    Ubuntu is the "one on every desktop" Linux distribution. They dumb down the system to make the threshold for Windows-users lower, but they maintain the possibility for power-users to use the system should they feel like it.

    The rest of the Linux distributions can go about their way and follow whatever goals they may have.

    People who wish to try other OSes than Windows should go ahead and do so. Those who don't wish to try another OS should stick with Windows.

    Linux != Windows after all.

  5. #5
    Registered User Jaqui's Avatar
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    Red Hat easy install?
    never in my experience. always have to battle red hat to install..on a system that was running linux before. [ fedora core 4 failed at not being able to format the partitions it had just created ]

    Ubuntu and Kubuntu, both debian based, both threw same error..they couldn't handle a multi disk partitioning scheme on my system the other day.


    make every distro a simple install? no thanks, I like using linux from scratch, when I do have to compile every bit of code into executables. it gives me an os that is 100% what I want, and is optimised for my hardware. unlike the install a pre-compiled binary that is bloated with code for lots of different hardware, or is unstable on your hardware as it isn't compiled for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Henager
    If the average user can put a CD in and boot the system and follow the prompts, he can install and use Linux. If he can't do that simple task, he doesn't need to be around technology.

  6. #6
    mov.w #$1337,D0 Jeremy G's Avatar
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    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all linux distro's should ONLY be easy to stall i'm just saying in a addition to their current installation methods some one should add a very simple installation interface as well. That way you encourage new people to start in a "Dont Hurt Me" difficulty of installation. After that, they use linux and become familiar with with the beast of the machine. Then when they've finally settled in they can use the same distro to reinstall regularly hand picking kernel options and all that nonsense that makes unix so optimized.
    c++->visualc++->directx->opengl->c++;
    (it should be realized my posts are all in a light hearted manner. And should not be taken offense to.)

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    The Right Honourable psychopath's Avatar
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    >>(like mandrake or red hat)<<
    This may or may not be relevent to the discussion, but I'd just like to throw out there that mandrake is dead.

    That being said, I have Mandriva 2006 64-bit Edition installed on an HDD partition. I found the installation frairly easy, to the point that I didn't need an install guide next to the keyboard with this one (I'm a Linux noob. My last distro was a Knoppix/Debian install.)

    I like Mandriva waay better than Windows, but unfortunatly, there are too many things on Windows I rely on to make Mandriva my dominant OS.

    -psychopath
    Memorial University of Newfoundland
    Computer Science

    Mac and OpenGL evangelist.

  8. #8
    mov.w #$1337,D0 Jeremy G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psychopath
    That being said, I have Mandriva 2006 64-bit Edition installed on an HDD partition. I found the installation frairly easy, to the point that I didn't need an install guide next to the keyboard with this one (I'm a Linux noob. My last distro was a Knoppix/Debian install.)
    -psychopath

    The first time I installed Gentoo I was using all the virtual consoles, one for command line and like 10 for links2 on the manual, or forums at gentoo.org.

    The second time I installed Gentoo, I started up the ssh daemon, and remotely installed it from from work and at home on my desktop computer. OMG is it soo much easier to install that way. Cause you got like a little console window for command line, and the whole GUI enviornment of your running OS to browse the documentation in comfort.
    c++->visualc++->directx->opengl->c++;
    (it should be realized my posts are all in a light hearted manner. And should not be taken offense to.)

  9. #9
    Registered User Jaqui's Avatar
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    simple installation, designed for those brand new to linux:
    Xandros, Linspire, Vector.

    Mandriva isn't bad for that, but I've seen some pretty bpneheaded errors from people trying to install it..like install into an 8mb empty space on hard drive. [ the 8 mb that windows leaves with an ntfs partition ]

    I'm currently under contract to write a series of articles on linux for a c-net site, so I'm looking at more distros than the one I normally use.
    part of what I'm doing is a serious review of each distro, from the viewpoint of someone new to linux, yet with the skills of an experienced linux user. if I run into a problem during an installation and can't get past it, then there is definately a problem with that distro.

    Vector Linux, based on Slakware, has a simple install, really sweet, was first distro that drove my sound chipset "out of the box ", but has 2 things it needs to improve on.
    1) no support for a pass phrase instead of a password.
    2) doesn't remember x-config settings from the install, you have to manually edit the x-config file to get anything above 640 by 480 display at 7 colours. [ a show stopper for newbies ]
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Henager
    If the average user can put a CD in and boot the system and follow the prompts, he can install and use Linux. If he can't do that simple task, he doesn't need to be around technology.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy G
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all linux distro's should ONLY be easy to stall i'm just saying in a addition to their current installation methods some one should add a very simple installation interface as well. That way you encourage new people to start in a "Dont Hurt Me" difficulty of installation. After that, they use linux and become familiar with with the beast of the machine. Then when they've finally settled in they can use the same distro to reinstall regularly hand picking kernel options and all that nonsense that makes unix so optimized.
    I think that is a fundamentally bad idea. Gentoo or Slackware, for example, are more complex and advanced than Fedora Core (Red Hat), Mandriva (Mandrake) or Ubuntu.

    When a new user boots into his Fedora/Mandriva/Ubuntu installation for the first time he's greeted by a nice, simple graphical UI which by and large resembles Windows. He can go on his merry way of learning to use Linux in a safe environment where many things can be done in the same or similar fashion to how it was done in Windows.

    Should that same user boot into Gentoo or Slackware after his first install, he would find himself in a much more challenging environment. Gentoo doesn't include a graphical UI by default, and Slackware is more textmode-centric than it is GUI-centric.

    Making the Gentoo or Slackware installs easier would trick new users into using those distributions when they are definately not right for them.

    Why are you insisting that there should be easy ways of installing all the distributions? All distributions aren't for all people: Many of them are focused on the new, just-switched-from-Windows users and many of them are focused on the experienced power-users. Let the installations reflect that.

  11. #11
    Cat without Hat CornedBee's Avatar
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    As kungtotte said: the difficult installation of distros like Gentoo is a barrier that filters out the people who would later be incapable of maintaining the distro correctly. Remove the filter, and you haven't removed any problems. Instead you get lots and lots of pleas for help from people who simply can't handle the manual config file editing (for example) that Gentoo requires.
    All the buzzt!
    CornedBee

    "There is not now, nor has there ever been, nor will there ever be, any programming language in which it is the least bit difficult to write bad code."
    - Flon's Law

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