Pearl Harbor and the atomic bombs

This is a discussion on Pearl Harbor and the atomic bombs within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; What's your opinion on these 2 topics? Did the Japanese mistaked by attacking Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941, and ...

  1. #1
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    Question Pearl Harbor and the atomic bombs

    What's your opinion on these 2 topics? Did the Japanese mistaked by attacking Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941, and did Truman mistaked droping the atomic bombs on August 6 and 9, 1945?
    Ilia Yordanov,
    http://www.cpp-home.com ; C++ Resources

  2. #2
    Registered User Aran's Avatar
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    Truman did the right thing: he killed 300k people instead of 30Mill.

    The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was beutifully executed, and a good tactical move that would have been made even more effective if the American's 5 carriers were actually in the harbour at the time... ohh well, luck has a LOT to do with wars.

  3. #3
    & the hat of GPL slaying Thantos's Avatar
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    The biggest mistake about the bombing was the fact that Japan sent a decleration of war to the US before the bombing, but didn't allow enough time for it to be decrypt, translated, and presented to Washington.
    Had they done that then the war would have been a lot different.

    Second biggest mistake was them calling trying to call our bluff.

    Was it a mistake to drop Fat Man and Little Boy? I would have to say no. It actually saved lives compared to the lose that would both sides would have taken if we had tried to invade mainland Japan.

  4. #4
    Registered User Aran's Avatar
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    Yeah, than, that japanese declaration mishap was a real blunder on one end, btu a real success on the other.
    If the americans got the declaration in time, the americans woul dbe ready for the attack, but since the americans weren't expecting it, although it was a big morale raiser and rallying flag for the americans.

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    I agree... I think, too, that if the war didn't end at this time, it was going to take a lot of more dead people... The "Olympic" operation which has been planned at this time, is calculated to take several million people lifes- Americans and Japanese...! Of course, we can't be sure this is true, but I think it is... the Japanese were going to fight to death, which was going to make the war take several more years, and many more victims... (in my mind).
    Of course, I am not the one who can say that droping atomic bombs was good... many civils died...men, women and children... all these- innocent people, and most of them had nothing to do with the war...
    But I think that all these were going to die in possible ground attack of american side.

    As far as about Pearl Harbor- I think the Japanese were not right to do it... it is no argue that the US navy was not prepared and did it bad, but I think they were not to war!

    Anyway, all wars are bad
    Ilia Yordanov,
    http://www.cpp-home.com ; C++ Resources

  6. #6
    Registered User Aran's Avatar
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    how many times will you get punched in the face until you punch back?

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    I do martial arts, so I can tell you as some kind of professional point of view- none! I attack first! Anyway, everyone gets punches and kicks... all you can do is to strike back!

    Aran Elus, I see you are kind of deep into the history? Aren't you? It is my hobby, so I will be very interested to talk to you on this topic. How about ICQing? My ICQ is 52958267. Also, you can e-mail me- loobian@cpp-home.com

    Anyway, let the tread continue...

    I already showed my point of view, wich is the same as Aran's...
    Ilia Yordanov,
    http://www.cpp-home.com ; C++ Resources

  8. #8
    & the hat of GPL slaying Thantos's Avatar
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    The thing is that when they bombed we weren't at war. The declaratoin had reached the Japanese Embissy but hadn't been decrypted and translated yet.

    The weird thing is that the head Admiral had studied in the US and warned against bombing before declaring war.

    As far as the martial arts thing; I prefer to wait for the to start to strike and counter when they are off balance and can't stop it as easily. Besides striking first gets you thrown in jail

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    Hi Thantos!

    Yes, you are right... America was officialy not in war (as far as I know). Also, admiral Richardson (the one who comanded the Pacific Fleet at this time) wanted that the ships from Pearl Harbor go back in the USA. He warned the USA that it is dangerous from a Japanese strike... although, admiral Stark (chief of Naval Operations) wanted the navy to stay where they were, and on February 1, 1941, Richardson was officialy replaced by admiral Kimmel, who didn't opposite to Stark, because he didn't want to have the same thing happened to him...

    So, the USA was warned by one of its own admirals, but no one listened... and we all see what happened...
    As far as about the encrypted message- yes... if they could decode it earlier, such thing could be prevented, possibly...

    And about the martial arts- I meant that I attack first, when sparring... not on the street- innocent people!!! :-)
    Ilia Yordanov,
    http://www.cpp-home.com ; C++ Resources

  10. #10
    & the hat of GPL slaying Thantos's Avatar
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    Got to love politics

    Even in sparring I wait.

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    Still A Registered User DISGUISED's Avatar
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    The biggest mistake about the bombing was the fact that Japan sent a decleration of war to the US before the bombing
    The real truth?

    The "Fourteen-part message", which the Japanese ambassador was supposed to deliver to the U.S. Secretary of State 1/2 hour before the attack on Pearl Harbor began, was a declaration of war, or at least a breaking off of negotiations which would have signaled war.

    The message is not a declaration of war, and did not even break off negotiations. Beyond a recapitulation of Japanese greivances against the U.S., and the United Kingdom and the Netherlands, there doesn't seem to be any real point to the message at all.

    So when did the Japanese government prepare the declaration of war? Was it just not delivered on time? The record from Japanese sources shows that the meeting called to write it didn't convene until 12:44 pm, Dec. 7th, Pearl Harbor time. Hours after the attack.
    This comes directly from the WWII historical society, derived from the congressional investigation that followed the attack. This is one of the most debated in events in U.S history. There are many opinions and many falsehoods about the actual details of the events of Dec. 7th, including the opinion of many, that the U.S knew of the attack ahead of time and allowed it to happen to involve the U.S in WWII. Many of which probably will never be completely sorted out.

    My opinion on the attack: We were at peace with the nation of Japan, in negotiations, trying to come to a resolve to the conflicts that were occuring in the paciffic. The distance between Japan and Hawaii makes it obvious that this attack was planed days, even weeks before the attack. The Japanese goverment deliberately decieved our goverment into to believing that they wanted a peaceful solution. They then attacked at a time when most people in pearl harbor were either in bed or in church. This was not a act of a nation with any kind of integrity.

    My opinion on the bombings: We didn't ask for this war, but sure as hell ended it. We did what we had to do to get our boys home safe.

  12. #12
    Still A Registered User DISGUISED's Avatar
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    sorry this should have read

    Myth: The "Fourteen-part message", which the Japanese ambassador was supposed to deliver to the U.S. Secretary of State 1/2 hour before the attack on Pearl Harbor began, was a declaration of war, or at least a breaking off of negotiations which would have signaled war.

    Fact: The message is not a declaration of war, and did not even break off negotiations. Beyond a recapitulation of Japanese greivances against the U.S., and the United Kingdom and the Netherlands, there doesn't seem to be any real point to the message at all.

    So when did the Japanese government prepare the declaration of war? Was it just not delivered on time? The record from Japanese sources shows that the meeting called to write it didn't convene until 12:44 pm, Dec. 7th, Pearl Harbor time. Hours after the attack.

  13. #13
    Registered User Aran's Avatar
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    i wouldn't trust any US sources or Japanese sources. We need a third party.

  14. #14
    Registered User rick barclay's Avatar
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    There are many, many ironies associated with Pearl Harbor, as there is with all great epic events.

    It's been opined that Roosevelt deliberately allowed the Japanese to launch the attack in order to have a viable reason for entering the U.S. into the war. The fact that so many warships were caught unprepared for the attack should convince anyone with any amount of common sense that Roosevelt would have had to be mad to allow such conditions to exist if he knew where and when an attack was coming. Opinions today are that America was caught off gaurd because the thought of a Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941 was dismissed as foolhardy and preposterous. Our guard was down much the same way it was on
    Sept. 11 of this year. This isn't irony, though, just opinion.

    One of the strangest ironies about the attack is that on that Sunday morning in 1941, a team of army technicians was operating a super secret radar installation in a remote part of Hawaii and actually spotted the incoming warplanes while they were more than a hundred miles offshore at least 30 minutes before the attack began. Had the duty officer taken the warning seriously that day, the ships would have scrambled out of the harbor and damage to the navy would have been minimal instead
    of the catastrophe it was.

    That radar installation was using equipment developed right here in Monmouth County New Jersy, and the scientists at Fort Monmouth were mortified at first because that radar was in place for the explicit purpose of preventing such an attack and thus, they thought, had failed miserably in its intended purpose. But their fears were allayed when the reports came back to them and the Congress that the installation had done its job as expected, and it was human error, as it always is, that thwarted a golden chance for America to spring a trap on our Pacific enemy and drastically alter the course of World War II. The implications of
    our avoiding what we should have that day are ominous, indeed, for they dictated the Japanese conduct toward Sinagapore, Malaya, and the Phillipines, all of which were also attacked on Dec. 7, 1941 as part Tokyo's Grand Plan for Empire and all of which fell quickly under the Japanese yoke as a result of the attack on Hawaii. If the attack on Hawaii had failed, think what the Japanese would have done in regard to those other islands in light of such a failure. There would be no fall of MacArthur in the east and the atomic bomb might very well have been droped on Hamburg and Dresden instead of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Or
    it might not have been dropped at all.

    rick barclay
    No. Wait. Don't hang up!

    This is America calling!

  15. #15
    aurė entuluva! mithrandir's Avatar
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    Just please please please don't believe the movie "Pearl Harbor". Their version of history is not even close to what actually happened.

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