Katrina Aftermath: Woeful Incompetence (rant).

This is a discussion on Katrina Aftermath: Woeful Incompetence (rant). within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally Posted by Xa3r0 the post in your words, i would liek to contain harassing things about the people hit ...

  1. #46
    the hat of redundancy hat nvoigt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xa3r0
    the post in your words, i would liek to contain harassing things about the people hit by katrina, now i dont really feel thsi way but the moderators family is there and im trying to make it feel liek he gettign kicked in the balls, so the more vulger but point making you can be the better, if you dont feel liek thinking that hard i will come up with somethign and you can change it to suit your writing type
    the harrassing things shoudl be somewhere aobut hwo you think the people should die and what not, and how shiutty it is to be waisting our money on them
    You don't even make sense any more. I know it must be in the middle of the night in New Jersey, so go to bed and get a full night of sleep. Opening up a new account is not only against the board rules, but also pretty fruitless because I can close it in a simple two-click procedure. You are wasting more time creating an account than it takes me to ban it.

    You are not banned for your oppinion, although I don't think it is an oppinion backed up by facts and thoughts. You are banned for calling moderators names and violating the board guidelines despite warnings, more warnings, more warnings and a final warning. 7 times and counting. I don't think you will get your account back, Richard.
    hth
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  2. #47
    Registered User Jaqui's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webmaster
    ~snip~ I mean, how many cities in the world are designed to withstand a direct hit from a category five hurricane? I imagine it would be something of an engineering marvel and, I hope, something of an inspiration for future generations.
    one.
    the design for a city, capable of withstanding a 150' tsunami.
    the"Mega Pyramid City" that has been designed to house 500,000.
    placed in Tokyo bay.

    carbon nanotube supports.
    the cg models suggest that this structure would even save tokyo itself from a huge amount of damage from said tsunami.

    estimated date of construction:

    none.

    it's designed, the construction details worked out.
    but no real plans for building it, yet. ( to costly )


    as far as the original subject of this thread is concerned.
    the Federal Government made some mistakes.
    The State Government made some.
    and the City Government made some.

    those that have been stranded by the storm, if they could have left and didn't, made a mistake.

    human nature, we make mistakes.

    I hope that the mistakes are corrected completely, and any exsiting plans for dealing with this type of emergency are updated to take into account what has been learned.
    ( I'm not going to hold my breath though, human nature is to ignore possibilities until to late )

    I know that England has already started with gathering supplies for assisting, I'm sure that Canada is also.

    The only thing I have taken offense to in reguards to this natural disaster, is the attitudes of some American Citizens with respect to International aide efforts.
    ( on a few other fora there have been extremely negative threads about a lack of International Aide )
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Henager
    If the average user can put a CD in and boot the system and follow the prompts, he can install and use Linux. If he can't do that simple task, he doesn't need to be around technology.

  3. #48
    Administrator webmaster's Avatar
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    This just a note that I've cleaned up most of the nonsense from ILV and some of the aftermath--don't worry if your post was deleted and you were not one of his dopplegangers.

  4. #49
    Software Developer jverkoey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webmaster
    This just a note that I've cleaned up most of the nonsense from ILV and some of the aftermath--don't worry if your post was deleted and you were not one of his dopplegangers.
    Understandable, thanks for getting rid of that garbage.

  5. #50
    I like code Rouss's Avatar
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    I live in Baton Rouge and am currently housing friends from NO. I have a friend that lives around the Mandeville area. He and I went to Northshore Wednesday to take pictures of his house and houses people had requested pictures for. We have about 100 pictures over all.
    http://cct.lsu.edu/~afrench/northshore
    It is a really sad situation down here. Not so much in Baton Rouge, besides the lack of gas, lines for whatever gas we do have, and the multitude of paranoid rumors floating around. But in New Orleans, I understand people are dying, and angry that they aren't being helped as much as they should be. I know a lot of people couldn't get out during the mandatory evacuation for some reason or another. But the mayor did have many buses going around different neighbors to pick people up for evacuation, and some people (a lot) refused to get on the buses. So I don't feel it is right for some people to blame the government for them being stuck there. I agree that maybe the government could be doing more, but the people doing the rescuing are in a lot of danger. They had to scale back helicoptor rescues because of people shooting at the helicoptors. People were shooting at the rescuers that were working to evacuate the hospitals where people are dying. How can you expect them to evacuate you when armed gangs are roaming the streets shooting at the people trying to save you? I have a friend that is a firefighter who is home for the first time since the hurricane. He said they have finally given the firefighters guns, because every time they go to put out a fire or rescue someone, they get shot at. There was the police officer that was shot in the back of the neck by looters. There was the MP that was shot in the leg during a struggle for a gun in the dark of night. There is no reason for that kind of ......... I don't blame the rescuers for not wanting to risk being shot. Even in the Superdome, people are beating and raping others. Where is the outrage from the citizens? There are/were thousands of people in the Superdome. Couldn't the majority (at least some) of upright citizens keep the minority from doing this.

    I don't mean to be callous. I don't want to be labeled a troll. But if you really want to rescue the people who need it in NO, something is going to have to be done about the people shooting at the rescuers. They have no respect for life (the rescuers or the rescuees), so why should any be given to theirs. They are threats to the rescue which I believe should be eliminated. And there are people looting (not talking about taking food) and destroying buildings. Some people (if you can call them that) broke into one of the malls and set it on fire. What kind of person does that? Two people were arrested trying to leave New Orleans in stolen cars packed full of loot.

    I can't even begin to imagine how this people are feeling in these conditions. But the government (who ARE helping inspite of all the danger) is the last place I think the blame should be pointed.

    For everyone on this board that is from or has family from that area, I hope that you are all safe and hope that everything works out as well as it can for you.

  6. #51
    _B-L-U-E_ Betazep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webmaster
    Maybe it's not possible to have predicted the looting that would take place
    I would say that looting should be expected.

    If I was waterless, I would take water. Now tennis shoes and TVs? That is a bit silly IMHO.

    All of those businesses have written everything off on their insurance I imagine, so they are not really out more so than they would be.

    I cannot say that it makes it right for all the frivolous merchandise, but food and water... I can understand.
    Blue

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    but food and water... I can understand.
    One of the police officials was on the news a couple of days after the storm passed and talked about this. He said the same thing basically, and pointed out that all the food and drink would have to be thrown away anyway - but any salvageable merchandise in other departments would mostly like be reused.

  8. #53
    Yes, my avatar is stolen anonytmouse's Avatar
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    The Positive Stories Must Get Out (large page)

    Story: Please help me to get this story out. We need to get the truth out and these people helped.

    Jeff Rau, a family and now personal friend to whom I will forever be linked, and I were volunteering with a boat and pulling people out of the water on Wednesday. I have a first-hand experience of what we encountered. In my opinion, everything that is going on in the media is a complete bastardization of what is really happening. The result is that good people are dying and losing family members. I have my own set of opinions about welfare and people working to improve thier own lot instead of looking for handouts, but what is occurring now is well beyond those borders. These people need help and need to get out. We can sort out all of the social and political issues later, but human beings with any sense of compassion would agree that the travesty that is going on here in New Orleans needs to end and people's lives need to be saved and families need to be put back together. Now.

    I will tell you that I would probably disagree with most of the people that still need to be saved on political, social, and cultural values. However, it must be noted that these people love thier friends and families like I do, desire to live like I do, and care for their respective communities (I was even amazed at the site of seemingly young and poor black people caring for sickly and seemingly well-to-do white people and tourists still needing evacuation from New Orleans' downtown area) the same way I care for mine.

    Eight people in particular who stood out during our rescue and whose stories deserve to be told:

    1.) We were in motor boats all day ferrying people back and forth approximately a mile and a half each way (from Carrolton down Airline Hwy to the Causeway overpass). Early in the day, we witnessed a black man in a boat with no motor paddling with a piece of lumber. He rescued people in the boat and paddled them to safety (a mile and a half). He then, amidst all of the boats with motors, turned around and paddled back out across the mile and a half stretch to do his part in getting more people out. He refused to give up or occupy any of the motored boat resources because he did not want to slow us down in our efforts. I saw him at about 5:00 p.m., paddling away from the rescue point back out into the neighborhoods with about a half mile until he got to the neighborhood, just two hours before nightfall. I am sure that his trip took at least an hour and a half each trip, and he was going back to get more people knowing that he'd run out of daylight. He did all of this wit! h a t!
    wo-by-four.

    2.) One of the groups that we rescued were 50 people standing on the bridge that crosses over Airline Hwy just before getting to Carrolton Ave going toward downtown. Most of these people had been there, with no food, water, or anyplace to go since Monday morning (we got to them Wed afternoon) and surrounded by 10 feet of water all around them. There was one guy who had been there since the beginning, organizing people and helping more people to get to the bridge safely as more water rose on Wednesday morning. He did not leave the bridge until everyone got off safely, even deferring to people who had gotten to the bridge Wed a.m. and, although inconvenienced by loss of power and weather damage, did have the luxury of some food and some water as late as Tuesday evening. This guy waited on the bridge until dusk, and was one of the last boats out that night. He could have easily not made it out that night and been stranded on the bridge alone.

    3.) The third story may be the most compelling. I will not mince words. This was in a really rough neighborhood and we came across five seemingly unsavory characters. One had scars from what seemed to be gunshot wounds. We found these guys at a two-story recreational complex, one of the only two-story buildings in the neighborhood. They broke into the center and tried to rustle as many people as possible from the neighborhood into the center. These guys stayed outside in the center all day, getting everyone out of the rec center onto boats. We approached them at approximately 6:30 p.m., obviously one of the last trips of the day, and they sent us further into the neighborhood to get more people out of homes and off rooftops instead of getting on themselves. This at the risk of their not getting out and having to stay in the water for an undetermined (you have to understand the uncertainly that all of the people in these accounts faced without having any info on the resc! ue ef!
    forts, how far or deep the flooding was, or where to go if they want to swim or walk out) amount of time. These five guys were on the last boat out of the neighborhood at sundown. They were incredibly grateful, mentioned numerous times 'God is going to bless y'all for this'. When we got them to the dock, they offered us an Allen Iverson jersey off of one of their backs as a gesture of gratitude, which was literally probably the most valuable possession among them all. Obviously, we declined, but I remain tremendously impacted by this gesture.

    I don't know what to do with all of this, but I think we need to get this story out. Some of what is being portrayed among the media is happening and is terrible, but it is among a very small group of people, not the majority. They make it seem like New Orleans has somehow taken the atmosphere of the mobs in Mogadishu portrayed in the book and movie "Black Hawk Down," which is making volunteers (including us) more hesitant and rescue attempts more difficult. As a result, people are dying. My family has been volunteering at the shelters here in Houma and can count on one hand the number of people among thousands who have not said "Thank You." or "God Bless You." Their lives shattered and families torn apart, gracious just to have us serve them beans and rice.

    If anything, these eight people's stories deserve to be told, so that people across the world will know what they really did in the midst of this devastation. So that it will not be assumed that they were looting hospitals, they were shooting at helicopters. It must be known that they, like many other people that we encountered, sacrificed themselves during all of this to help other people in more dire straits than their own.

    It is also important to know that this account is coming from someone who is politically conservative, believes in capitalism and free enterprise, and is traditionally against many of the opinions and stances of activists like Michael Moore and other liberals on most of the hot-topic political issues of the day. Believe me, I am not the political activist. This transcends politics. This is about humanity and helping mankind. We need to get these people out. Save their lives. We can sort out all of the political and social issues later. People need to know the truth of what is going on at the ground level so that they know that New Orleans and the people stranded there are, despite being panicked and desperate, gracious people and they deserve the chance to live. They need all of our help, as well.

    This is an accurate account of things.

    Regards,
    Robert LeBlanc
    ~~~~

  9. #54
    I like code Rouss's Avatar
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    Here's something I just read on Fark (www.fark.com), in case anyone is interested.

    Also there is a story there about how a group of eight people were shooting at contractors making repairs. Police officer's returned fire and killed five, maybe six.

    ** We have had a battery operated TV so we've been getting local channels focusing on the situation there and here. I'm just getting the "national perpsective" and its *(&*&(*ing me off!

    First, this is not a racial thing. I'm sorry if all the reporters are seeing are black faces but if they would
    take their cameras to places like Slidell, Mandeville, Metairie and CHALMETTE! they would see a several thousand white faces being affected by this. Most of the tip of the boot that is Louisiana south and east of Baton Rouge is under water. Those people are stuck too waiting for help, dying, but all the news people can focus on is the Superdome.

    Another misconception. The violence going on there is not the reaction of desparate people. Its typical New Orleans on any given Tuesday!!! Its a dangerous, dirty, drug infested place where the city police and city government is corrupt and useless. Volunteers are getting shot at and their cars vandelized. Hellicopters are being shot at. Just another day in the city.

    Another misconception. These poor people couldn't get out because they don't have cars. If the cameras show the city once the waters recede, you'll notice all the flooded out cars littering the streets. They couldn't all have been broken down before the storm hit . Yes, there are always people who do not have transportation. Part of making the call for a MANDATORY evacuation is that the city has to provide for transportation and/or shelter in the city. People stayed for the same reasons they always stay. They think the storm will turn and go in another direction. They think they can "ride it out." Or, they're just too (*&( lazy to pack up and leave.

    Another misconception. The federal government was slow to respond. The president issued a state of emergency BEFORE the storm ever hit, unprecedented. This means that the full access of the federal government, be it military or civil, were at our govenor's disposal. The levee broke early Monday afternoon. She did not call evacuation until Tuesday morning. You cannot call up National Guard units in 20 minutes. It takes time. The governor and mayor are in high CYA mode at the moment.

    The situation is bad here. Crime is becoming a problem in Gonzales and Baton Rouge where the evacuees are being housed. We live between the two cities and there is pistol on my desk shelf as a type (yes, I know how to
    use it). Hellicopters flying overhead all day, gas is running out, stores shelves becoming empty. Its like a war zone. Our kids are both here and are staying here until the crime situation gets in control and I fear it
    will get worse before it gets better. Pray for us. **

  10. #55
    Banned nickname_changed's Avatar
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    This is a nice spin on things: http://neopoleon.com/blog/posts/15938.aspx

  11. #56
    Administrator webmaster's Avatar
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    Rouss, no offense to you, but I think that a great deal of that quoted text is either nonsense of irrelevant.

    First, this is not a racial thing. I'm sorry if all the reporters are seeing are black faces but if they would take their cameras to places like Slidell, Mandeville, Metairie and CHALMETTE! they would see a several thousand white faces being affected by this. Most of the tip of the boot that is Louisiana south and east of Baton Rouge is under water. Those people are stuck too waiting for help, dying, but all the news people can focus on is the Superdome.
    I agree that issues have more to do with socio-economic status than they do with race. At any rate, there is a question of whether those people in Slidell or Metaire are actually trapped in the city and living in troubling conditions or if their property was simply destroyed.

    Another misconception. The violence going on there is not the reaction of desparate people. Its typical New Orleans on any given Tuesday!!!
    I assume he's referring to the gun-toting gangs. I don't know about him, but I've never met any gun-toting criminal gangs in New Orleans, so I don't think that's really a "typical" New Orleans Tuesday. Also, given that he's not actually a resident of New Orleans--but someone who lives between Baton Rouge and New Orleans--I'm guessing he doesn't have that much experience actually inside the city.

    I do, however, agree that these aren't the desperate people who are carrying those guns. I don't know anyone who made that claim, so he's attacking a straw man with that.

    Also, this is kind of annoying statement because he, like much of the media, is ignoring all of the heart-warming stories and focusing on only a small precentage of the population.

    Its a dangerous, dirty, drug infested place where the city police and city government is corrupt and useless. Volunteers are getting shot at and their cars vandelized.
    I've never been afraid to go into the city, to the Convention Center, or downtown. I would be now, however, if I were in New Orleans. Crimes are taking place in areas that are generally safe. I think it's clear that this is an exagerration although some of what he says is probably true of any city. (I did find that Phoenix, Arizona was remarkably clean, but every other city I've been to has been dirty.)

    Another misconception. These poor people couldn't get out because they don't have cars. If the cameras show the city once the waters recede, you'll notice all the flooded out cars littering the streets.
    This proves nothing. I'm much more convinced by estimates that 100,000 people in the city didn't have cars than what could only amount to anecdotal evidence. The fact is that those cars could be there for a variety of reasons--for instance, rescue workers or people who had to stay in the city as part of their jobs.

    Sure, there were some fools who stayed because they thought they could ride it out. There are always some people who act in a manner that I wouldn't consider rational. That doesn't mean that we can stereotype everyone who was forced, for whatever reason, to stay.

    Yes, there are always people who do not have transportation. Part of making the call for a MANDATORY evacuation is that the city has to provide for transportation and/or shelter in the city.
    They did make a shelter in the city, and the conditions there were in large part what people were complaining about. I also doubt that there was sufficient time for everyone to evacuate to the superdome, given the logistics of the situation. I've heard reports of the busses running quite late. This also assumes that everyone even heard the evacuation order--which wasn't the case, given the relatively late notice the city had.

    People stayed for the same reasons they always stay. They think the storm will turn and go in another direction. They think they can "ride it out." Or, they're just too (*&( lazy to pack up and leave.
    I find it hard to hold human nature against people. If you've seen storms turn for the last fourty years, it's not really surprising that you'd expect the same for the next one.

    Also, I don't think that the claim about people being too lazy to pack up and leave is fair: you can evacuate without doing a lick of packing if you so desire, or just throwing a few pairs of clothing into the car. It's probably more difficult to actually properly prepare for a hurricane (which many people probably did, or so some news reports have suggested).

    Another misconception. The federal government was slow to respond. The president issued a state of emergency BEFORE the storm ever hit, unprecedented. This means that the full access of the federal government, be it military or civil, were at our govenor's disposal. The levee broke early Monday afternoon. She did not call evacuation until Tuesday morning. You cannot call up National Guard units in 20 minutes. It takes time. The governor and mayor are in high CYA mode at the moment.
    This is pretty much irrelevant. In particular, the national guard coming to New Orleans was not tied to the evacuation order. Moreover, it's not clear what evidence is intended to show fault with the major, given that the claim is that Blanco was in control of the resources and also declared the evacuation. Perhaps the idea is that Nagin should have told her to evacuate more quickly? It's not really clear, and I don't know if we have enough evidence to find fault with him on this matter. At any rate, I think the claim is poorly argued.

    On an aside, part of it is not strictly true; the President has issued preemptive State of Emergency declarations in the past (albeit rarely).

    Finally, I find it a bit annoying that he's effectively using his position as an on-the-scene observer to make an argument that has nothing to do with his being on the scene. (Granted, he has little choice unless he wants to write two emails, but he wrote this paragraph in the same style, with the same lead-in about "misconceptions" and he complained about the "national" media earlier, clearly playing up his position on the ground.)

    The situation is bad here. Crime is becoming a problem in Gonzales and Baton Rouge where the evacuees are being housed.
    I can't really comment on this, but from what I understand, the claims of crime in Baton Rouge is more of an urban legend than anything else--in large part sparked by a misguided email by the Chancellor of LSU. He later apologized for overstating the situation.

  12. #57
    Lead Moderator kermi3's Avatar
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    Though I'm not going into the same depth Alex just did, I am going to strongly second everything he said.

    I have lived in New Orleans proper for 22 years. Granted, there are portions of the city that are extremely violent (a murder per day is a reasonable average), and I have lived in a reletively affluent (think middle class) area. However, there has only been one time that I have felt truely unsafe driving through my home town, and that was because of my own stupidity and lack of sense of direction - and because I had 5 7th graders I was resonsible for at the time...


    edit: I'll also add that in my opinion many of the comments quoted seem quite rascist and offinsive. Unfortunately, New Orleans is a city were most of the low SES inhabitants are black. It's an SES problem, not a race problem. We also have to remember that many people couldn't afford the lost wages if they evacuated and it didn't hit, not the cost of gas to leave...

    Also - as to cars on the street. Many families own two cars and only left in one. My family left my step-father's car and my sister's car behind.
    Kermi3

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  13. #58
    I like code Rouss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webmaster
    Rouss, no offense to you, but I think that a great deal of that quoted text is either nonsense of irrelevant.
    No offense taken. You made a lot of good points. I posted it just after reading it. I thought it was interesting and that maybe someone else would think so also. Like I said, I found it on fark, so it may very well be nonsense.

    Quote Originally Posted by webmaster
    I can't really comment on this, but from what I understand, the claims of crime in Baton Rouge is more of an urban legend than anything else--in large part sparked by a misguided email by the Chancellor of LSU. He later apologized for overstating the situation.
    I'm not sure what is true or rumors concerning the crime in Baton Rouge. I never saw the apology from the chancellor, but I did receive an email that stated that there were confirmed reports of civil unrest (which I think was just a fight of some sort) confined to specific areas of downtown BR. Then it went on to ask people to take proper safety precautions and such. It might have come on a little strong on the safety part, but I didn't think it was too bad. Also, it seems that a lot of the rumors that get started are caused by jerks calling in false reports to the police. Hopefully as time goes by, the rumors will subside. But I guess only time will tell.

  14. #59
    Lead Moderator kermi3's Avatar
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    I do know there was some civil unrest in BR, but it was quickly contained. I heard this from a first hand account from someone in BR.
    Kermi3

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  15. #60
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    >>but most of the countries in the UN aren't exaclty in the habit of returning favors to the US.

    Not so....

    http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N02552447.htm

    even Afghanistan chipped in..
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems...9/s1452867.htm


    >>worsened by the 24/7 coverage (which is a good thing)...as compared to the tsunami

    Less TV crews with their own helicopters or way to get the footage out.
    "Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
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    "If you are going through hell....keep going."
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