morals

This is a discussion on morals within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Would you be having fun replacing your mailbox some morning after a drunk guy smashed it off? I can think ...

  1. #61
    Epo
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    Would you be having fun replacing your mailbox some morning after a drunk guy smashed it off? I can think of things that would be more fun than that.
    It's just one of this big red "deposit" mail boxes that are made out of metal and stand there. No smashing, just changing it's...orientation. It's nobody's property but the government's.

    Be horrified and think of me as a monster if you like, I can justify it to myself and I can handle any consequences/"what if YOUR mail was in the box?" scenarios. But this is far off topic from the morality of helping someone cheat on homework, so it's the last I'll post about it.
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  2. #62
    C++ Witch laserlight's Avatar
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    No. Just because something is against the rules doesn't make it immoral.
    That's true, in specific cases.

    If the point of the assignment is to practice writing a paper (such as in a research methods or creative writing class), then I agree. In that case, the end result is not the focus.

    However, if the professor is more interested in the paper than the process, then why do the work again? Having a previously written paper that has already been marked over by a professor is a great tool for improvement. Since the paper will most likely be for a different class, the paper will need to be modified anyway to fit the requirements of that particular assignment.
    The thing is, we're working with a general case. I'm looking at it from the point of view that it makes sense to start from scratch in order to learn or practice something new. Presumably the work re-submitted without modification wont score high marks since it will be somewhat off, but it will do as a lazy way out.
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  3. #63
    Lead Moderator kermi3's Avatar
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    Ok, I think everyone knows my position on cheating is...but allow me to make one point....

    No one on this thread has answered the original question: Is it moral to help someone cheat for money?

    Plenty of people have stated why they believe it is not immoral. However, just because something isn't immoral, does not mean it is moral. Why is it "conforming to a standard of right behavior" citation to help someone cheat for money?

    The biggest justification I've seen given is it's their problem take money. However, that indicates that the justification is greed. Is greed moral?

    So I will restate the original question: Is it moral to help someone cheat for money?

    I do not believe so...

    To another issue mentioned:
    Unfortunately thats not the case. Anytime you copy something without referencing it it is plagerism (even if you wrote the original!). For example, if you write an essay for some class and then later on submit the same essay in a different class, your're actaully plagerising yourself! I've had profs warn against this...

    Then again, [it's retarted that it's plagerism to not cite yourself]
    (paraphase of a couple of posts)


    To be tactless: You're wrong. It makes perfect sense to cite oneself. The place that I've see authors cite themselves most often is in scientific journals and books. An author is presenting the findings from a scientific expirement. That study builds on previous research. If I'm reading the second study, I sure as hell want references to the first. I will probably want to go back and read the first study to make sure I understand the foundation, and so I can decide if I think that it's a solid study. If the author had just assumed that I knew what he was talking about because he had written it previously, then his writing would look like an unfounded claim.
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  4. #64
    Mayor of Awesometown Govtcheez's Avatar
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    No one on this thread has answered the original question: Is it moral to help someone cheat for money?
    Zuh? It's been answered several times.
    You're an idiot if you don't know this is wrong.
    It's clearly wrong to help someone cheat.
    Morals is something that the individual has to decide for themselves.
    etc etc
    Plenty of people have stated why they believe it is not immoral. However, just because something isn't immoral, does not mean it is moral. Why is it "conforming to a standard of right behavior" citation to help someone cheat for money?
    If something isn't immoral, and it's not moral, what is it? Your last sentence in there doesn't make any sense, either.
    To be tactless: You're wrong.
    You're right, here. I'm incorrect.

  5. #65
    aoeuhtns
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    Please people, just be appropriately bastardly and do the assignment for him, get paid, and then send the code to the professor.

    Now, is _that_ immoral? :-)

  6. #66
    Mayor of Awesometown Govtcheez's Avatar
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    That's sneaky and underhanded and I like it, but I don't know where it is on "Ye Olde Morality Metre (c)"

  7. #67
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    id say that would be worst then doing just the homework.

  8. #68
    Administrator webmaster's Avatar
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    I imagine that the traditional answer to the question is probably that it's not moral because you shouldn't be taking the responsibility of the punishment upon yourself since it's not your rules that are being broken, and it otherwise makes you come off as a tad greedy. I think the particular concern is that it would probably result in a greater punishment than warranted being handed down from the professor. Unless you think cheaters deserve death, in which case you should feel bad for depriving their family of their rightful inheritance.

    ILV: I have to know, why is that worse?

  9. #69
    Lead Moderator kermi3's Avatar
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    >>Please people, just be appropriately bastardly and do the assignment for him, get paid, and then send the code to the professor

    I won't say that I've ever taken someone's IP and turned them in for cheating...but.....
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Govtcheez
    That's sneaky and underhanded and I like it, but I don't know where it is on "Ye Olde Morality Metre (c)"
    Every one knows that morality is measured in feet, not meters.
    If I did your homework for you, then you might pass your class without learning how to write a program like this. Then you might graduate and get your degree without learning how to write a program like this. You might become a professional programmer without knowing how to write a program like this. Someday you might work on a project with me without knowing how to write a program like this. Then I would have to do you serious bodily harm. - Jack Klein

  11. #71
    Crazy Fool Perspective's Avatar
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    >>To be tactless: You're wrong. It makes perfect sense to cite oneself. The place that I've see authors cite
    >>themselves most often is in scientific journals and books.

    I agree here in the case that the original has been published. But in the case where you've written a school assignment for one class then want to use material from it for another class it seems quite odd to reference yourself. Your better off rewriting the material and using the orginal references from the first paper. But this is rather off topic anyway....

  12. #72
    Senior Member joshdick's Avatar
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    I swear we've had this conversation before.

    Whether you think is moral is ultimately up to how well you can rationalize it to yourself, but there's no escaping it's unethical. It clearly goes against the ACM and IEEE ethics codes, and your university likely has rules about this you're breaking, too.

    Why not charge money to tutor kids? There's plenty of money to be made by smart kids helping others through certain courses.
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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by webmaster
    I imagine that the traditional answer to the question is probably that it's not moral because you shouldn't be taking the responsibility of the punishment upon yourself since it's not your rules that are being broken, and it otherwise makes you come off as a tad greedy. I think the particular concern is that it would probably result in a greater punishment than warranted being handed down from the professor. Unless you think cheaters deserve death, in which case you should feel bad for depriving their family of their rightful inheritance.

    ILV: I have to know, why is that worse?

    because when a student goes out to find someone to
    do there homework, they are destroyign themselves,
    when the home work doer destroyes them, it just seem
    like a higher form of evil.

  14. #74
    Administrator webmaster's Avatar
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    If you assume that by cheating the student is destroying himself, then you could make the counter-claim that by turning in the student, you're actually doing him a favor since it will prevent more destructive behavior in the future. (Although that would depend on how harsh the punishment is, I guess.)

  15. #75
    Bob Dole for '08 B0bDole's Avatar
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    >Although that would depend on how harsh the punishment is, I guess.

    Yah, usually it's expulsion (at least here at my Uni) so I don't know how productive that would be.
    Hmm

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