morals

This is a discussion on morals within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; You have to take risks in life ILoveVectors! Don't listen to these people, they're safe, they're in a comfort zone! ...

  1. #16
    UT2004 Addict Kleid-0's Avatar
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    You have to take risks in life ILoveVectors! Don't listen to these people, they're safe, they're in a comfort zone! I mean if someone gave me a gun and would pay me $100 to kill someone, whadareya gonna do!? You go on a killing spree, that's what I say! It's not about what's right and wrong, it's about the money, the risks, and how many cool stories you can tell your grand children!

  2. #17
    Administrator webmaster's Avatar
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    Keep in mind that college classes are often curved. By helping someone incompetent, you're not just hurting their future (although that's potentially a dubious claim anyway), you could be making the class more difficult for other people. Obviously this would have to be a death by 1000 cuts, but you'd still be contributing to it. That is, assuming you wrote a good program. I guess you're not under any real obligation to do that.

  3. #18
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    Ho hum, I used to have no qualms posting solutions to ppl's homework here. Until I realised that instead of actually being helpful, I was being exactly the opposite.

    First, consider the scenario. Your pal asks you to do an assignment for him/her. And so you do, but unfortunately you don't have the time to explain it to him/her. So anyway, time goes by and he/her gets the assignment marked. However, marking involves a one-to-one assessment between student and teacher.

    Clearly, it won't take long to for the teacher to realise the student's work is not their own, resulting in your pal getting into extremely hot water. A problem if you have any morals?!

    Second, let's assume you decide to explain your code to your pal. So that when marking time comes he/her is (just) about able to convince his teacher that it is their own work. Ok so everything is sweet right? Well no not exactly. What happens when your pal then decides to go and get a job? Where will you be then?

    Third, C and C++ is so versatile. What I mean by that is that there are so many ways to do one thing. For example, there are a whole bunch of ways to read data from a file. Now your pal may be taught this one way to read data from a file. However, you, on the other hand was taught another. But when you do the homework for him you use your way. This will probably confuse your pal and will probably be easily spotted by his teacher.

    IMHO, I don't think you are looking at the big picture here.

    Regardless of whether you know that student or not it is still wrong. This is fact, no matter how you might try to convince yourself otherwise.

    If you want to really make yourself useful, consider tutoring him/her. This takes a helluva lot more time and the rewards only come after a lot of hard work and many months down the line.

    On the other hand this might not be a possibility if you don't know them, which in that case you should abandon your original idea altogether.

    If all that isn't enought to convince you that what you are doing is wrong then perhaps you should re-evaluate your ethics.


  4. #19
    C++ Witch laserlight's Avatar
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    "Cheating is about FRIENDSHIP!"
    Well, I once sat in an exam hall that had a notice in the front exhorting students to engage in teamwork....
    I daresay some students interpreted the concept of teamwork somewhat differently from the author of that notice.
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  5. #20
    Registered User major_small's Avatar
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    you know what's fun? letting that .............. next to you cheat off you the entire semester, and watching him fail miserably during all his tests and have to take the course again
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  6. #21
    5|-|1+|-|34|) ober's Avatar
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    Ok, but let's take this from another standpoint. You are a freelance programmer looking to do some small projects for quick cash. You don't know the circumstances of the project and you're too dumb to realize it's a school project. You get approached from the web anonymously with a cash offer to do a quick programming job. Is it morally wrong to take the job then? (I'm not saying I've done this, but consider the scenario).

  7. #22
    C++ Witch laserlight's Avatar
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    You don't know the circumstances of the project and you're too dumb to realize it's a school project. You get approached from the web anonymously with a cash offer to do a quick programming job. Is it morally wrong to take the job then? (I'm not saying I've done this, but consider the scenario).
    I dont think so, since you are not conspiring with the student to cheat the teacher (or to cheat the student himself/herself, for that matter).
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  8. #23
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    ILoveVectors, I took your side in this exact argument just a few months ago. However, it really is indefensible. Read the following thread (the issue with gun manufacturers is brought up as well). I think joshdick makes a pretty good argument that it is unethical to do someone else's homework.
    If I did your homework for you, then you might pass your class without learning how to write a program like this. Then you might graduate and get your degree without learning how to write a program like this. You might become a professional programmer without knowing how to write a program like this. Someday you might work on a project with me without knowing how to write a program like this. Then I would have to do you serious bodily harm. - Jack Klein

  9. #24

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    >> "Cheating is about FRIENDSHIP!"
    I think that blew my funny fuse.
    I'm not immature, I'm refined in the opposite direction.

  10. #25
    Software Developer jverkoey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ober
    Ok, but let's take this from another standpoint. You are a freelance programmer looking to do some small projects for quick cash. You don't know the circumstances of the project and you're too dumb to realize it's a school project. You get approached from the web anonymously with a cash offer to do a quick programming job. Is it morally wrong to take the job then? (I'm not saying I've done this, but consider the scenario).
    No. The person offering the job could easily say the offer is for something else and there's no real way to verify it.

  11. #26
    pronounced 'fib' FillYourBrain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B0bDole
    My Java professor said that he has actually caught students offering money for their assignments on forums and what not. He said he offered to do the assignments, got the money, then failed the students.
    Prof. Hamza-Lup ??
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by webmaster
    Keep in mind that college classes are often curved. By helping someone incompetent, you're not just hurting their future (although that's potentially a dubious claim anyway), you could be making the class more difficult for other people. Obviously this would have to be a death by 1000 cuts, but you'd still be contributing to it. That is, assuming you wrote a good program. I guess you're not under any real obligation to do that.

    See this right here is what i am talking about, how am i hurting
    there furture, its there choice to pay someone, i wouldnt
    be forcing them to do anything, i wouldnt even be trying to
    talk people into it, id just have the offer avalible, and contact me
    if interested.

  13. #28
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    ok i finally got through my think head i understand why,
    it shouldnt be done. thanks for your posts. no other are
    required.

  14. #29
    5|-|1+|-|34|) ober's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ILoveVectors
    See this right here is what i am talking about, how am i hurting
    there furture, its there choice to pay someone, i wouldnt
    be forcing them to do anything, i wouldnt even be trying to
    talk people into it, id just have the offer avalible, and contact me
    if interested.
    If you're specifically targeting students, that is wrong IMO. You are undermining the principles of education and in the end you're really screwing them over (knowingly).

  15. #30
    Banned nickname_changed's Avatar
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    I don't see anything wrong with it. So long as the people you're doing the work for are old enough to know they're cheating, you'll have done nothing wrong in my books.

    Students must take responsibility for themselves and the decisions that they make. If people want to lie and cheat their way into A grades, then go for it. Sure, it can be annoying when you're the guy who has actually studied hard while the know-nothing jerk at the back paid $20 for some kid to do his homework. But remember: "The race is long, but in the end, it's only with yourself."

    If someone asked me to and offered good money, especially if I was a struggling student myself, I'd take it. And I wouldn't feel bad. You're making a profit while someone else is cheating themselves. This is no different to investing money in a company while there are mass layoffs to make money. Some people are losing their jobs while you're getting rich. Should you feel guilty? No, I don't think so.

    The luxuries we in the western world are so accustomed to are only avaliable because people in developing countries go without, that's the way it's always been. Should we feel guilty every time we sit on our $7000 leather couch? I don't think we should, although I sometimes do. But only because those people have no choice for their circumstances. The morons you're helping by doing their programming for them have made a concious decision to cheat, and theres nothing wrong with you profiting from it.

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