I really hate people

This is a discussion on I really hate people within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally Posted by Perspective but automobile deaths are common in all countries that have them. The number of gun related ...

  1. #46
    5|-|1+|-|34|) ober's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perspective
    but automobile deaths are common in all countries that have them. The number of gun related deaths in the US is an order of magnitude larger than any other country. Surely there's a problem there.
    Wrong. You take away our guns and we'll find other, more inventive ways to kill each other.

    Maybe we have better reasons to kill someone over here? Ever think of that?

  2. #47
    Senior Member joshdick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ober
    You take away our guns and we'll find other, more inventive ways to kill each other.
    And yet, the rest of the civilized world seems content to just ease up on murdering people when their guns are restricted.

    Maybe we have better reasons to kill someone over here? Ever think of that?
    I know what you mean, but I think you could've picked much better words. You're suggesting there are good reasons for people to go around killing each other.

    What I think is the case is that the U.S. has less of a sense of community than most of the world. Furthermore, our status as a "melting pot" makes social cohesion oftentimes difficult.

    Also, I don't think our drug laws are really helping to curb violence. Instead, they create an enormous illegal market that creates more violence.

    But few people want to tackle those issues ...

  3. #48
    Cheesy Poofs! PJYelton's Avatar
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    >>Wrong. You take away our guns and we'll find other, more inventive ways to kill each other.<<

    So you are saying that all of the gun related deaths that have happened would have happened anyways just through some other means? Don't buy that for a second. If someone is REALLY determined, yes they can find others ways to kill, but guns make it so easy that anyone can simply kill anyone at any time without a thought. Hell, a five year old can kill a full grown man with a gun. Take away guns and no way do you have incidents like Columbine or the recent school shootings in Minnesota. Guns make it way too easy to kill way too many people with way too little thought or brains.

  4. #49
    5|-|1+|-|34|) ober's Avatar
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    Yeah, I could have worded that better, but you get my point.

    And the rest of the world is having lawsuits brought against homeowners by burglars... and the burglars are winning. Your point?

  5. #50
    5|-|1+|-|34|) ober's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJYelton
    So you are saying that all of the gun related deaths that have happened would have happened anyways just through some other means? Don't buy that for a second. If someone is REALLY determined, yes they can find others ways to kill, but guns make it so easy that anyone can simply kill anyone at any time without a thought. Hell, a five year old can kill a full grown man with a gun. Take away guns and no way do you have incidents like Columbine or the recent school shootings in Minnesota. Guns make it way too easy to kill way too many people with way too little thought or brains.
    See, now you're reading things into what I'm saying. Let me read some into yours:

    You're saying that people kill people just because it's easy? Like they would want to kill in other circumstances, but they just wouldn't because they're lazy?

    And don't pull that columbine crap on me. You and I both know that determined people will find guns and use them if they really want to. Columbine would have happened at one point or another because those kids would have found the guns one way or another.

    Sure, accidents happen because of stupid people. All I'm saying is that people that are truly ........ed off enough to kill another human, will find ways to do it.

  6. #51
    Cheesy Poofs! PJYelton's Avatar
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    >>You're saying that people kill people just because it's easy? Like they would want to kill in other circumstances, but they just wouldn't because they're lazy?<<

    Not lazy per se, but simply not capable either due to intelligence, ability, or strength. Someone without a gun would really have to work to find a way to kill a certain someone. Not everyone is capable of doing this. Give them a gun and its like giving somone a cheat sheet to a test. Not to mention guns allow someone to kill in a moments rage, while having to plan will often discourage the person and allow them to cool down thus having them back out.

    >>And don't pull that columbine crap on me. You and I both know that determined people will find guns and use them if they really want to. Columbine would have happened at one point or another because those kids would have found the guns one way or another.
    <<

    You're right, sorry to use such a cliched notion. The point wasn't necessarily that these kids wouldn't have found guns anyways, but that guns make it easier for such mass killings to occur. And you say determined people will find a way, I agree. What I'm arguing is that guns make it so that the NON-determined people can easily kill.

    Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with the notion that people kill people and that American culture is far more to blame than simply the fact that we have guns. BUT I just don't think its possible to cure what ails our society until we lose guns from our national identity.

  7. #52
    Mayor of Awesometown Govtcheez's Avatar
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    but automobile deaths are common in all countries that have them.
    So? Because everyone else is doing it makes it ok? If every other country in the world was allowed unrestricted access to guns would you think we should be allowed to?
    Quote Originally Posted by joshdick
    stuff
    Hey, how're you coming with those numbers to back up those stupid claims you made earlier?

    Also, for PJ and josh and you guys, none of you have addressed what I'm really arguing against - what makes a gun with a bayonet lug an assault weapon?

  8. #53
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    > Not to mention guns allow someone to kill in a moments rage, while having to plan will often discourage the person and allow them to cool down thus having them back out.

    OK, how about we ban knives? And again, it would be super easy to kill someone with my car. It weighs a ton (lol pun) more than a person and it can go way faster. Just because they're not used as often to purposely kill doesn't make them less dangerous.

  9. #54
    Cheesy Poofs! PJYelton's Avatar
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    Because, like said before, knives have an enormous range of uses that benefit our lives. Guns do not except as a hobby or for those very few people anymore who actually hunt for their food. And for the record I'm not for banning hunting rifles.

    And if you can find a way for our economy and society to live without cars, I'm all for it

  10. #55
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    > Guns do not except as a hobby

    God forbid someone have something that has isn't used for something practical. Guess I'll have to throw away my XBox and dartboard and movies and pretty much 3/4 of what I own. Saying "there's no use for them except for hobbyists or hunters" is not a good argument for banning them. Besides, plenty of people hunt for their food - that doesn't mean it's their only supply.

    > And if you can find away for our economy and society to live without cars, I'm all for it

    Well hell, society worked fine without cars. Just because they're ingrained in many facets of our society and culture (like guns) doesn't mean you can't get rid of them.

  11. #56
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    >>God forbid someone have something that has isn't used for something practical. Guess I'll have to throw away my XBox and dartboard and movies and pretty much 3/4 of what I own. <<

    If XBox's and dartboards were killing as many people as guns were, hell yeah I would be for banning them! I have nothing against hobbies or items that aren't practical, never said I did.

    >>Saying "there's no use for them except for hobbyists or hunters" is not a good argument for banning them. <<

    No, I'm not saying ban them because they are no use except as hobby or hunting, I'm saying that being useful as a hobby isn't good enough to excuse the number of people they kill.

    >>Well hell, society worked fine without cars. Just because they're ingrained in many facets of our society and culture (like guns) doesn't mean you can't get rid of them.<<

    I agree society used to work fine, but we aren't living in that society anymore. Like I said, propose you're idea to gradually phase out cars without ruining our economy, I'm behind you 100%

  12. #57
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    I think we should be attacked by aliens.

    I mean, we always end up fighting each other because of relatively minor differences (religion and ways of life, crap like that). But, if we were invaded by aliens, we'd just stop midwar be like 'wtf' and start shooting the aliens.
    I believe it was Reagan who used this concept quite often. It's a nice thought at first, but think about this on a smaller, more historically proveable scale. On December 7th 1941, America was attacked. Clearly there were people who wanted to do harm to America, and had the power to do so, but there were still rascists. There were still left-winger's and right winger's. There were still dishonest journalists, people who thought we should give negotiations with warring countries more time, people that felt we should go about the war different ways. Aliens wouldn't change things much. Sure we'd all be under a common threat, but people would start all sorts of "told you so" arguments, and people who refuse to fight because if it's God's will that we survive, we'll survive, and we shouldn't have to kill to do so. Then people who believe we should really do something to blow the aliens out of the universe would start wars to stop anti-war demonstrators.

    Maybe it would improve our outlook on eachother a little more (definitely in the short term), but it's not going to get us to world peace.

  13. #58
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    I believe it was Reagan who used this concept quite often. It's a nice thought at first, but think about this on a smaller, more historically proveable scale. On December 7th 1941, America was attacked. Clearly there were people who wanted to do harm to America, and had the power to do so, but there were still rascists. There were still left-winger's and right winger's. There were still dishonest journalists, people who thought we should give negotiations with warring countries more time, people that felt we should go about the war different ways. Aliens wouldn't change things much. Sure we'd all be under a common threat, but people would start all sorts of "told you so" arguments, and people who refuse to fight because if it's God's will that we survive, we'll survive, and we shouldn't have to kill to do so. Then people who believe we should really do something to blow the aliens out of the universe would start wars to stop anti-war demonstrators.

    Maybe it would improve our outlook on eachother a little more (definitely in the short term), but it's not going to get us to world peace.
    Obviously you've never seen "Independance Day" then. Why would Hollywood lie about something like that?

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    His grandmother XD
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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJYelton
    >>God forbid someone have something that has isn't used for something practical. Guess I'll have to throw away my XBox and dartboard and movies and pretty much 3/4 of what I own. <<

    If XBox's and dartboards were killing as many people as guns were, hell yeah I would be for banning them! I have nothing against hobbies or items that aren't practical, never said I did.
    first of all, violent crimes such as murder are actually several orders of magnitude higher in Britain, a country in which almost all guns are illegal, than in the US. Just because a country has 10s of thousands of gun deaths does not mean that those deaths would not of occured in equal numbers elswhere. You also have to look at the fact that guns are used in defensive purposes anywhere from 800,000 - 2,500,000 times a year to prevent crimes such as rape and murder.

    EDIT: also, you are forgetting that murder is a per capita thing. You forgot to mention that the US has a population of 5 times that of Britain IIRC(Britain does have 60 mil?) and that we have alot more poorer people that there are in Europe.
    Guns are not the problem, the heterogeniety of the US in respects to Race/Religion/Ethnicity is. Look at Switzerland and Finland, over there they are REQUIRED to own a weapon(in both countries, fully automatic weapons are legal), and they have some of the lowest crime rates of any industrialized nation. Is this because they have guns, no. This is because the ethnic mixture in most European countries is almost 100% of one ethnicity.

    >>Saying "there's no use for them except for hobbyists or hunters" is not a good argument for banning them. <<

    No, I'm not saying ban them because they are no use except as hobby or hunting, I'm saying that being useful as a hobby isn't good enough to excuse the number of people they kill.
    Knives kill far more people in Britain that guns, so should they be required to ban knives, since criminals moved to them when they banned firearms?

    >>Well hell, society worked fine without cars. Just because they're ingrained in many facets of our society and culture (like guns) doesn't mean you can't get rid of them.<<

    I agree society used to work fine, but we aren't living in that society anymore. Like I said, propose you're idea to gradually phase out cars without ruining our economy, I'm behind you 100%
    hmm.. propose me a way to phase out guns that does not lead to more crime(happened in every country that has banned them), including more murder and rapes, and I will be behind you 100%
    there used to be something here, but not anymore

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