The pope

This is a discussion on The pope within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Should morality be dictated by what you believe is right or by what people actually do?...

  1. #46
    & the hat of GPL slaying Thantos's Avatar
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    Should morality be dictated by what you believe is right or by what people actually do?

  2. #47
    Mayor of Awesometown Govtcheez's Avatar
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    You believe it is immoral. Plenty of people do not.

    edit: I would never marry a woman who wanted to "save herself for marriage". Sex is a pretty significant part of relationships, and I wouldn't want to be with a woman who I wasn't sexually compatible with.

  3. #48
    & the hat of GPL slaying Thantos's Avatar
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    Actually I haven't given my personal opinion. Now answer the question

  4. #49
    It's full of stars adrianxw's Avatar
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    Morality is a difficult word. It is not a defianble measurable thing. What to you is immoral is to many other, simple human nature.

    The fact remains that vast numbers of people ARE dying. That is the issue I have.
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  5. #50
    & the hat of GPL slaying Thantos's Avatar
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    Sigh...
    Your morality is based off of what you believe to be right regardless of what others are doing correct?

  6. #51
    It's full of stars adrianxw's Avatar
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    Huh? I'm not sure I totally understand your question.
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  7. #52
    Mayor of Awesometown Govtcheez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thantos
    Actually I haven't given my personal opinion. Now answer the question
    I did answer the question. I don't believe it's immoral at all, hence my morality is being influenced by my beliefs.

    Do these people deserve to die because they're bad Catholics?

  8. #53
    and the Hat of Clumsiness GanglyLamb's Avatar
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    About the condom - AIDS issue in Africa :

    I spend one year in Nigeria and it is very very religious although i think only 50% is Christian though, but still i can assure you that it will be a very difficult task before you can find someone that is against the use of condoms.

    Being there for one year I lost a couple of friends over there on HIV/AIDS and its not like they got HIV trough sex only.
    Alot of the times people are infected because of bad environment in hospitals and because of lack of knowledge by some people.

    During my one year stay i never had my hair cut just because i know these barbers dont clean there scissors etc after barbing someone...
    You will even see people roaming the streets with scissors asking you if they can cut your nails ( feet and hands ) the tools they use are hardly sterilised whatsoever...

    Government has been campaigning on these issues ( the mentioned above and things like not sharing blades etc wit each other ) for several years.

    Of course thats only one country out of Africa but with over 120 million inhabitants it must mean something.

    So at the end i think that HIV/AIDS is caused more by an unclean environment and a lack of knowledge about the desaese rather then someone stating that as a Christian you are not allowed to use condoms...

  9. #54
    It's full of stars adrianxw's Avatar
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    GL:

    Yes, there are other causes for the spread of HIV, I don't think anyone who has travelled in Africa would dispute that.

    The thread though, is about the pope. There are few people that would dispute that the pope and his ministry condemn the use of condoms, and sexual transmission is a very common infection route.
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  10. #55
    and the Hat of Clumsiness GanglyLamb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Govtcheez
    You win this round...

    Still, you can't deny that if the misinformation about condoms hadn't been spread, the AIDS rate in Africa would be waaay lower.
    I was actually replying on this, but it seems like this thread is going to fast for me to keep up...

  11. #56
    & the hat of GPL slaying Thantos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianxw
    Huh? I'm not sure I totally understand your question.
    Is your beliefs in what is right and what is wrong dictated by what other people do, or your own sense of right and wrong?

    I did answer the question. I don't believe it's immoral at all, hence my morality is being influenced by my beliefs.
    Right so if we were to layout a set of whats right and whats wrong it shouldn't matter if people act against that, we would still believe what we believe. Plenty of people commit murder each year, yet we still believe its wrong.

    Thats all I was trying to get at. Morality isn't (or shouldn't) be dependant on the actions of others.

    The pope and the church is a guide for your own morality. I have disagreed with the Pope and with the church and many issues. I examined my own beliefs and have come up with my system of morals.

    I would say its hypocritical to break the church's rules on some issues but blame them on other issues (issues that are connected at least).

    If condoms will help stop the spread of AIDS then go for it. However the church can still say it's morally wrong.

    But life is often about balancing what you believe to be right and what you need to do to survive.

  12. #57
    It's full of stars adrianxw's Avatar
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    >>> or your own sense of right and wrong?

    My beliefs are based on my own view of what is right and wrong, otherwise would not be my beliefs would they, they would be what I had been indoctrinated into by someone else.
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  13. #58
    & the hat of GPL slaying Thantos's Avatar
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    Ok so lets say you believed X to be wrong. If 1 billion other people thought it was right would it change your belief? 2 Billion? 3 Billion? ... Every other person in the world?

  14. #59
    It's full of stars adrianxw's Avatar
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    >>> Ok so lets say you believed X to be wrong.

    I am not a fool. Anyone who believes totally in X without ever questioning it is a fool.

    I do have views which are diametrically opposite to billions of people, that however, does not mean mine are wrong and theirs are right.

    So long as their views and mine do not physically manifest themselves in some mean, I am quite happy that they believe what they believe and I believe what I believe. Not an issue.
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  15. #60
    Yes, my avatar is stolen anonytmouse's Avatar
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    >> Should morality be dictated by what you believe is right or by what people actually do? <<

    I have no problem with promoting abstinence. For the limited number of people who stick to it, it has the highest success rate against HIV, other STDs and unwanted pregnancies. However, to actively discourage condom usage is wrong. Some countries run so-called "ABC" programs. Abstinence. Be Faithful. Condoms.

    Abstinence only programs simply do not work. They do not work in the America, let alone African countries which have much higher rates of STDs.

    Most Catholics in the Western world use some form of contraceptive. Is it ethical for them to fund a no-condom message in countries with a 20% HIV/AIDS rate and no social welfare system for unwanted children?

    Could you clarify your argument Thantos? Do you believe that the no-condom message does not lead to more cases of HIV/AIDS or do you believe it is a moral message, even with the "side-affects"?

    I'm sorry you considered my original message a flame. I don't believe it was. I have had a strong feelings on this issue for the best part of a decade.

    The Vatican is not the only culprit in the no-condom movement. Many evangical Christion churches and Islamic leaders also preach a no-condom, no sex education message. With the election of Bush, the USAIDS program has also partially gone down this path. Ultimately, governments also carry considerable blame for listening to these groups.

    >> Being there for one year I lost a couple of friends over there on HIV/AIDS and its not like they got HIV trough sex only.
    Alot of the times people are infected because of bad environment in hospitals and because of lack of knowledge by some people. <<

    There has been some debate on the contribution of dirty needles in the African HIV epidemic, but the medical consensus is that the vast majority of cases are sexually transmitted.

    There are many myths about other HIV tranmissions paths such as mosquitoes and even hair cuts. Some of these might contribute to a tiny portion of HIV infections (less than 1%), but are a big problem as they distract from the safe-sex message.

    If there is a general belief in Nigeria that HIV is caused by an unclean environment, that is a serious problem that will cost many lives.

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