It's about time Microsoft....

This is a discussion on It's about time Microsoft.... within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; What do you guys think of the entire Windows GUI being based off of DirectX 9.0? Rumors have it, and ...

  1. #1
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    9,596

    It's about time Microsoft....

    What do you guys think of the entire Windows GUI being based off of DirectX 9.0? Rumors have it, and we have discussed this somewhat on the game programming board, that the new Windows GUI will use DirectX 9.0 to render everything.

    I think it's about time. GPU's are way faster than the GUI. And this would mean that we would not have such a distinction any more between Win32 GUI and DirectX 9.0.

    Of course, building the OS shell on DirectX 9.0 which is a Microsoft invention might send MS right back into lawsuits...only this time it won't be Netscape or Apple sueing them...it will be the makers of OpenGL.

    I welcome the change.

  2. #2
    Mayor of Awesometown Govtcheez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    8,825
    I don't know enough to form an opinion, but what would happen if certain things in DX are disabled? I turn off DirectDraw occasionally to play a game, and I wouldn't be all that happy if my GUI stopped working because of it.

    edit:
    > it will be the makers of OpenGL.

    What? How would that stand up?
    Last edited by Govtcheez; 02-16-2005 at 12:43 PM.

  3. #3
    Registered User Scribbler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Aurora CO
    Posts
    266
    Why would OpenGL sue Microsoft for using their own IP? I'm not sure what you're getting at.

    As to Longhorn using DirectX, that's not rumor, that's what they're claiming. I haven't heard anything recent, but this article discusses it a bit.

  4. #4
    BMJ
    BMJ is offline
    Banal internet user BMJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    1,380
    Avalon.

    And how the hell would it send Microsoft back into court? It doesn't nullify alternate APIs, it just means that the GUI is powered by DirectX, which is reasonable and interesting consdiering how powerful video cards are becoming.
    Last edited by BMJ; 02-16-2005 at 01:06 PM.

  5. #5
    Banned nickname_changed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    986
    I think he means the makers of alternative API's like OpenGL will complain about Microsofts bundling of DirectX with the operating system (because if it's used by the GUI, there'll be no way to remove it) in the same way the European Union knobs forced Microsoft to release a version of windows without Windows Media Player (which they dubbed Windows XP Reduced Media Edition, and were again forced by the European Union to change the name. Funny thing is they charge the same price for both versions of Windows, so I doubt anyone will use it anyway).

    I think it's a good idea and will probably make it much easier to write simple games and good looking UI's. Avalon and XAML are looking like a great platform for writing rich UI applications.

  6. #6
    Mayor of Awesometown Govtcheez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    8,825
    > Microsofts bundling of DirectX with the operating system

    DirectX is already bundled with the OS, isn't it?

    > (because if it's used by the GUI, there'll be no way to remove it)

    So maybe OpenGl should have their own OS? This is silly - MS isn't allowed to use their own program in their own program.

  7. #7
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    9,596
    And how the hell would it send Microsoft back into court? It doesn't nullify alternate APIs, it just means that the GUI is powered by DirectX
    Lesser things have put them in court. Like when Netscape complained that IE was being distributed with Windows as if the user had no choice but to use IE - and that they did not have to pay for IE separately which gave IE an unfair advantage.

    It didn't matter if their move nullified Netscape or not, because Netscape still existed and was being sold...but Netscape claimed it gave Microsoft an unfair advantage over their product.

    I think legitimate legal claims could be made against MS if they choose to develop the GUI solely for DirectX 9.0. This would give them an unfair advantage over OpenGL obviously and you and I both know that when they move to DirectX 9.0 for the GUI, everything and anything about the GUI will be so geared towards DirectX 9.0 that GL won't stand a chance as far as desktop GUIs go.

    So are we going to then have a choice between using OpenGL as our GUI or DirectX? Perhaps?

    I think it spells trouble if they approach this issue as carelessly as they have similar types of issues in the past. I'm sure that they are thinking of this as we speak...so that they do not end up in another legal battle.

    DirectX 9.0 is pure Microsoft and so is Windows. IE was pure Microsoft and so was Windows. What's the difference between these two issues. Not much I'm afraid.

  8. #8
    Registered User Scribbler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Aurora CO
    Posts
    266
    The issue was NOT that IE was bundled with Windows (if that were the case, IE wouldn't be packaged with it today), it was about Microsoft's practice of selling windows to the OEMs for a greatly reduced price as long as IE was the only browser packaged with the install CD's and that IE's icons were prominently displayed. Thus almost (I say 'almost' because it wasn't a requirement, just a really tempting bait) guaranteeing every PC sold would only have IE installed on it.

    It was all about business practices, not about technological compatibility.
    Last edited by Scribbler; 02-16-2005 at 02:12 PM.

  9. #9
    RoD
    RoD is offline
    Redundantly Redundant RoD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    6,331
    Linux, nuff said.

  10. #10
    BMJ
    BMJ is offline
    Banal internet user BMJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    1,380
    Microsoft's monopoly of the PC market is somewhat disturbing, but I really don't think suing the company for writing software is very fair. Yes it's Microsoft (more like MACROsoft, lol am i rite?) but it would be inane for anybody to take them to court for this.

    Perhaps I'm just starving for some innovative new Windows technology.



    edit: RoD, no.

  11. #11
    RoD
    RoD is offline
    Redundantly Redundant RoD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    6,331
    The OpenGL board wouldnt sue Microsoft for this, hell they're ON the board.

  12. #12
    Banned nickname_changed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    986
    Quote Originally Posted by Govtcheez
    DirectX is already bundled with the OS, isn't it?
    Actually I don't think it is, but even if it was, you can uninstall it, unlike say IE which is bundled and can't be uninstalled.

    Quote Originally Posted by Govtcheez
    So maybe OpenGl should have their own OS? This is silly - MS isn't allowed to use their own program in their own program.
    Try telling the European Union that.

  13. #13
    Has a Masters in B.S.
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    2,267
    >So maybe OpenGl should have their own OS? This is silly - MS isn't allowed to use their own program in their own program.

    its called its an unfair buisness advantage... IE anyone.... Media Player?... its hard to compete... but im sorta on the ropes with this though...

    >The OpenGL board wouldnt sue Microsoft for this, hell they're ON the board.

    no they left. loooong time ago.

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/03..._opengl_board/

    >So are we going to then have a choice between using OpenGL as our GUI or DirectX? Perhaps?

    MS would go back to scraping on rocks first i figure. i mean they were one of the original members of the opengl ARB... and they didnt support more than a rudimentary software renderer... among other nasty things.
    ADVISORY: This users posts are rated CP-MA, for Mature Audiences only.

  14. #14
    Mayor of Awesometown Govtcheez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    8,825
    > its called its an unfair buisness advantage...

    It's unfair to integrate one of their products with another one of their products? That's ridiculous.

    > IE anyone....

    As pointed out, this isn't the same thing.

  15. #15
    Has a Masters in B.S.
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    2,267
    >It's unfair to integrate one of their products with another one of their products? That's ridiculous.

    >As pointed out, this isn't the same thing.


    yes it is to both because all of the products represent seperate somewhat "interreliant" markets, and by them providing several "interreliant" markets packaged together as one they "stifle" the lesser markets to their favor. they have a HUGE leg up on all competition in those markets.

    and on top of that integrating makes them PERMANENTLY part of the same product, meaning you have them wether you want them or not... and it gives those products another unfair advantage in that they may be open to functionality and "performance" unachievable by competitors because they have sole access to the necessary informations and resources to level the playing ground.
    Last edited by no-one; 02-16-2005 at 05:13 PM.
    ADVISORY: This users posts are rated CP-MA, for Mature Audiences only.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Popular pages Recent additions subscribe to a feed

Similar Threads

  1. Problem building Quake source
    By Silvercord in forum Game Programming
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 07-11-2010, 09:13 AM
  2. M$ phone suit
    By RoD in forum A Brief History of Cprogramming.com
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 12-26-2002, 04:58 PM
  3. Is this really true or it's just science fiction?
    By Nutshell in forum A Brief History of Cprogramming.com
    Replies: 145
    Last Post: 04-09-2002, 06:17 PM
  4. time class
    By Unregistered in forum C++ Programming
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-11-2001, 09:12 PM
  5. Retaliation towards witch king\microsoft
    By Koshare in forum Linux Programming
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 10-19-2001, 04:54 AM

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21